Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[copycutter]

Doesn't the rb25 in being a *relatively* high compression motor compared to other similar era nissan motors mean that it doesn't quite like boost as much?

Which turbo would mimic the 2835 Pro S closest in behaviour?

What is the minimum boost on these high pressure actuators?

[copycutter]

The ART43G3 is a bigger turbo that the turbo's in the SS range. It is not the turbo you want if you are after response. The SS series pushes roughly the same amount of boost to make similar power, earlier.

Check page 73, Tao made 285rwkw with the SS2 turbo on 18.8psi.

Also had a look at this result Sarge.

I've read a bit over the first 100 pages with particular interest in seeing if the boost curves get ironed out.

I noticed someone said "would hold steadier with EBC" as Stao's results there were just waste gate.

How is this possible? How would the EBC force a turbo to hold a set pressure better than the mechanical parts with are obviously being forced to bleed back because of some sort of restriction?

[Rolls]

Doesn't the rb25 in being a *relatively* high compression motor compared to other similar era nissan motors mean that it doesn't quite like boost as much?

Perhaps however they can still take >20psi/300kw on pump fuel. As long as you keep heat and detonation under control you can run >20 psi on a stock motor no issue.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Rolls

[SargeRX8]

Also had a look at this result Sarge.

I've read a bit over the first 100 pages with particular interest in seeing if the boost curves get ironed out.

I noticed someone said "would hold steadier with EBC" as Stao's results there were just waste gate.

How is this possible? How would the EBC force a turbo to hold a set pressure better than the mechanical parts with are obviously being forced to bleed back because of some sort of restriction?

The current actuator on my turbo, without an EBC gives about 14psi MAX BOOST. This was perfect. I can switch my boost controller off and run no more than 14psi. With my boost controller, I can use it to control a straight line of 15psi on low boost and a straight line of 19 - 20psi. We didn't spend anytime fiddling with the advanced features of my EBC, just set the target boost and away we went. With my boost controller, and alot of other good ones, you can set gain boost. So for example lets say you have a 14psi actuator and want to run 16psi. You hit 16psi but the boost starts to taper back down to 14psi. The boost controller will detect this and when you set the gain, you are telling your EBC that in the event of boost falloff, bleed out some air and let the boost ramp up a little more to the target value. When I first got my turbo from Tao, the lowest boost I could hold was 19.8psi. The actuator was too hard, so I sent it back for a softie which was too soft and now got one which is perfect. If you can get your hands on a Garret or HKS 12 - 14psi boost controller, you will be cheering. It should fit these turbos and they would be much more stable at holding boost if you can set the pre load right.

Perhaps however they can still take >20psi/300kw on pump fuel. As long as you keep heat and detonation under control you can run >20 psi on a stock motor no issue.

This is exactly what Jez told me, running high boost and high power its all about keeping the temps down and controlling detonation. He tuned my car nicely but since I changed my intake its pinged a little. I used FC edit to pull timing out of the whole upper area of the map. I really can't feel any power loss, and its not knocking. Sacrifice some timing for engine health? Yes please.

[copycutter]

Ok well even though I thought 20 was asking a lot, what sort of heat issues are you referring to rolls? Do you mean charge inlet temps via IC setup or underbonnet temps?

Sarge, this is pretty much along the lines of what I'm looking for. How would I order one of these goldilocks actuators with this turbo (IE not too hard not too soft ) if I was to describe it to Stao.

As I said I intend to run up to 18/19/20 or thereabouts, however I don't like the idea of that being the minimum too. I'd prefer a 14 psi that can be lifted to the peak output setting with the EBC.

As for the gain setup, I thought gain settings were only to assist in the delivery and speed of bringing boost on, not a facility to stop boost bleeding off at high rpm??

Do you have a dyno chart for your current setup by any chance if you don't mind sharing?

[Rolls]

Ok well even though I thought 20 was asking a lot, what sort of heat issues are you referring to rolls? Do you mean charge inlet temps via IC setup or underbonnet temps?

Everything, intake temps, coolant temps, exhaust temps.

[Birds]

It's 100% not the cat, one of the first things my tuner asked about. He's an experienced, well respected guy, no tuner bashing please

Bullshit asshole nobody likes the tuner around here.

[petero'nell]

Doesn't the rb25 in being a *relatively* high compression motor compared to other similar era nissan motors mean that it doesn't quite like boost as much?

Which turbo would mimic the 2835 Pro S closest in behaviour?

What is the minimum boost on these high pressure actuators?

The SS1PU would be a very good turbo to get if chasing similar response / power to the 2835, and it infact made more power all over the places on paper. I'm testing new actuator mod which Stao released few days ago, Boost went up by 2psi, The minimum boost I can run now is 19psi with no boost controller.

[copycutter]

Do you have to run 19 minimum to get good control or do you just prefer to have no boost controller?

[SargeRX8]

Ok well even though I thought 20 was asking a lot, what sort of heat issues are you referring to rolls? Do you mean charge inlet temps via IC setup or underbonnet temps?

Sarge, this is pretty much along the lines of what I'm looking for. How would I order one of these goldilocks actuators with this turbo (IE not too hard not too soft ) if I was to describe it to Stao.

As I said I intend to run up to 18/19/20 or thereabouts, however I don't like the idea of that being the minimum too. I'd prefer a 14 psi that can be lifted to the peak output setting with the EBC.

As for the gain setup, I thought gain settings were only to assist in the delivery and speed of bringing boost on, not a facility to stop boost bleeding off at high rpm??

Do you have a dyno chart for your current setup by any chance if you don't mind sharing?

Couple pages back I posted both of my dyno charts. From the previous tune and the current tune on the mainline. I think Tao stocks 14psi actuators which is what you can request from him. I too am like you, no need to run 18psi everytime I feel like boosting when 14psi feels nice and solid.

My boost controller has 3 settings which affect the way boost comes on and holds. You have the SET setting which is the amount of boost you want to run, it is a percentage on the spring load of the actuator. Its a trial and error thing and different for every car. Then you have GAIN which is used to control boost fall off. When boost falls off at higher RPM, you can try to bring it back up using this. Too much and you will spike past your target boost setting. Its f**king hard shit to setup. I thought I had mine perfect on my old skyline until I came across a hill and it spiked by 2psi. Its really fiddly shit. Then you have START BOOST, this is where my EBC will kick in to start controlling boost.

Have a read over the manual: http://www.jdmlegion.com/Assets/PROFEC_B_SPEC2.pdf

Page 17 about GAIN. Pretty sure a bunch of the better boost controllers have this feature too, to control boost fall off. If you look at my dyno in the past two pages, you can see at 19psi the boost is a very very nice flat line, then it falls off. My gain is set to 0%, upping the gain by say 5% will tell my EBC that when it sniffs boost falling below my SET, increase it by 5%. Maybe 5% is too much and will spike triggering the boost cut, maybe its not enough. Its just an example.

[t_revz]

can someone tell me the ss model abe is using. i dont wanna clog up the dyno results section with further questions. im guessing its the SS2 or SS3 to be able to get to 358 rwkw. i must have missed it previously slip through here.

[Hanaldo]

can someone tell me the ss model abe is using. i dont wanna clog up the dyno results section with further questions. im guessing its the SS2 or SS3 to be able to get to 358 rwkw. i must have missed it previously slip through here.

It's the G3, not the SS series. Page 125.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Hanaldo

[t_revz]

It's the G3, not the SS series. Page 125.

ahhh yes i remember the drift videos now... but the link he put up went to SS series, thats what threw me off course

thanks martin

[copycutter]

Page 17 about GAIN. Pretty sure a bunch of the better boost controllers have this feature too, to control boost fall off. If you look at my dyno in the past two pages, you can see at 19psi the boost is a very very nice flat line, then it falls off. My gain is set to 0%, upping the gain by say 5% will tell my EBC that when it sniffs boost falling below my SET, increase it by 5%. Maybe 5% is too much and will spike triggering the boost cut, maybe its not enough. Its just an example.

Right, ok. That makes sense. I hadn't ever fiddled with gain too much on my older turbo setups with my 180sx, and with the skyline now all I would get is spikes which aren't worth it on a stock turbo.

Am I right in saying the most up to date model of SS2 is hitting boost somewhere in the 3000-3500 range?

[Rolls]

Do you have to run 19 minimum to get good control or do you just prefer to have no boost controller?

It is always best to have your gate/spring run whatever boost you want and use an EBC to tweak it, if you have a spring that runs say 12psi an want to run 20psi it can be a bit annoying to set up on some turbos.

Usually you just set everything up at xpsi and leave it, is there a reason why you want to change it?

[SargeRX8]

Right, ok. That makes sense. I hadn't ever fiddled with gain too much on my older turbo setups with my 180sx, and with the skyline now all I would get is spikes which aren't worth it on a stock turbo.

Am I right in saying the most up to date model of SS2 is hitting boost somewhere in the 3000-3500 range?

My car hits 19psi in 4th gear at about 3600 - 3800.

[copycutter]

Well I don't have any particular need to be able to adjust it up and down other than:

1. A wastegate that does the boost level you want to tune it at renders your expensive EBC useless

2. If the EBC is controlling it and it overboost past your warning, you can have it jump down to wastegate pressure which is super noticeable "warning feature" of something being wrong with boost levels

3. It's nice to have the ability to turn down a few pound for safety if it's a track day, super hot, super wet, showing off to unsuspecting passengers etc

Happy to hear reasons why all the above are BS though.

[scotty nm35]

1 - To some extent but the ebc will ramp boost harder as wastegates usually leak a bit coming on due to the manifold pressure jump.

2 - Shouldnt need to set it up that way unless someone else is driving your car. Just the warning is enough.

3 - Foot control, learn it.

[Hanaldo]

3 - Foot control, learn it.

Saying I can't go full throttle around a track?

[Fry_33]

Just need to source a piece of pipe to properly plumb up the oil return line, spent $50 on some oil control hose that just kinks when I tighten the clamp up

If you have a hose kinking, a Unicoil might stop it? Most Auto Shops should have them.