Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[t_revz]

By the way I'm doing some modifications to the SS2, not sure if it will work, but if so, I should get 300rwkws with SS1's response.

just when i think i know what i want...

[Randon_I_Am]

You'll never know what you want becvause Stao will just keep making better and better turbos.

Mine is quite out of date now even with the FNT upgrade.

Just pick one and run with it

[Harey]

here here! If you wait for the perfect turbo you will never have one!

[GTScotT]

Not when the new and improved version comes out every few months lol.

Best thing to do is to pick one that you agree suits what you currently are looking for and buy it.

Dont ever look back thinking damn I should have waited..

[rondofj]

Yep never regret what u have, regardless of what better products follow. ENJOY it to the max.

[rondofj]

For the majority of us Skyliners (un-built engines, mostly / completely street-use cars), I reckon the best turbo is the one Stao says he is working on, " 300rwkws with SS1's response" - the best of both worlds. 300rwks because that is supposedly when un-built RBs pop..or 280rwkws to satisfy some of you. But hey c'mon, unless ur tracking it or driving like an idiot on the street, you will rarely use that 300rwkws on LONG DURATIONS, (more like short spurts of power when you think the road is empty and put your pedal to firewall lol), hence theres not much risk of your engine going bang if all else is up to spec..

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong..

[GTScotT]

Yeah no you are fairly correct. However some of us really wring the necks out of our motors.

I would be keen to do a stress test on a Hypergear turbo, I would love to kick one in the guts for a good 20 minutes straight and see where it ends up. Only issue is risking the motor when the heat goes through the roof (if it will).

Would be interesting to test.

[Harey]

Yes its all good to say "300rwkws with SS1's response" but I will wait for the dyno sheet. That would be a phenomenal achievement.

I would go through the dyno sheets and choose the one that suits you best.

[dori34]

For fast response 280rwkws I would recommend the SS1PU version with a 20psi actuator.

By the way I'm doing some modifications to the SS2, not sure if it will work, but if so, I should get 300rwkws with SS1's response.

wow. this sounds interesting.

300rwkw and int gate, if it can hold boost steadily then you got yourself a killer turbo

[Rolls]

wow. this sounds interesting.

300rwkw and int gate, if it can hold boost steadily then you got yourself a killer turbo

Check his dyno sheets, he has quite a few that will do it, the issue is the heat they generate from the housing sizes, wouldn't be something you would want to use on the track without running a very conservative tune, be nice on the street though.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Rolls

[dori34]

Check his dyno sheets, he has quite a few that will do it, the issue is the heat they generate from the housing sizes, wouldn't be something you would want to use on the track without running a very conservative tune, be nice on the street though.

yeah im aware of the heat issues of his turbos.

if this one doesnt have that issue then it will be the perfect choice.

the heat issues is whats making me opt for a kando instead.

[Rolls]

The heat is not an "issue" as in something is wrong but just the nature of any turbo that makes 300kw with <4k response, if you go a kando the only reason it doesn't have as much heat is because it is laggier.

[Trozzle]

The heat is not an "issue" as in something is wrong but just the nature of any turbo that makes 300kw with <4k response, if you go a kando the only reason it doesn't have as much heat is because it is laggier.

would running external gate reduce some of the heat due to less restriction in the initial section of the housing? Just thoughts

[GTScotT]

The heat is not an "issue" as in something is wrong but just the nature of any turbo that makes 300kw with <4k response, if you go a kando the only reason it doesn't have as much heat is because it is laggier.

Not totally correct.

There is a balance of parts used that achieve the desired results. Stao is achieving good results working with housing constraints, a convential 90 degree swing valve wastegate is hardly optimal for bypassing gas in a system. It does not effectively bypass the flow path which is probably why we see Staos more effective setups with quite high pressure in the exhaust side (pressure venting rather than flow). That sort of thing is all friction of gas on gas which results in heat.

Sort of like how a microwave makes water particles vibrate, when the particles vibrate they create friction on themselves and get hot. Ever wondered why its so hard to microwave some types of pasta? Coz their freaking dry.

Unfortunately turbos wont always perform how you plan them to on paper either, which is why Stao's trial and error method has started paying off greatly now. The balance of parts used to achieve good results here are usually pushing things to their limits also, but things will always go hardest when they are being pushed hardest. Just the same you would rather have a 2860 making 200kw than you would a 3076.....

The Kando's wont run as hot because of the accumulation of parts used. Good flowing manifold, big wastegate in the flowpath, housings not bound by size or dimension constraints and designed specifically for the exact wheels that are in them.

Sort of like why the AVO housings suck on GT30s and a big ugly GT30 housing is a much better option.

Turbos are far more 'dynamic' than assuming x power and y spool will = z heat. Just the same that x psi does not equal y power.

[Rolls]

The Kando's wont run as hot because of the accumulation of parts used. Good flowing manifold, big wastegate in the flowpath, housings not bound by size or dimension constraints and designed specifically for the exact wheels that are in them.

Sort of like why the AVO housings suck on GT30s and a big ugly GT30 housing is a much better option.

Turbos are far more 'dynamic' than assuming x power and y spool will = z heat. Just the same that x psi does not equal y power.

Yep, if you got a kando with an internal flap wastegate and used the stock manifold I think you would see similar heat issues, the 300kw versions (T67 etc) are generally physically quite a bit bigger as well though so the rear housing is likely to flow a lot better and generate less back pressure anyway. Bit of both I think that would make for them a cooler running set up.

Would be interesting to see the difference in EGT from HGs 300kw turbos with his internal wastegate and an en external wastegate off the stock manifold. Though as soon as you start using external wastegates etc I think the HG loses its appeal imo.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Rolls

[GTScotT]

Yeah for sure, I think a internally gated 20g would suck balls.

Thats the thing were all speculating though, if we can replicate or exceed 2835 Pro S results with an externally gated 20g.

Yet to be honest the HG stuff meets and exceeds a lot of expectations of many turbos available.. The only thing I truly question is the opperating temperatures when pushed to the limit.

Stao would you bring your car to a race track and let someone test this scenario? If it could be proven that the turbo would run at optimal temperatures even when belted on the track you may find yourself looking at more sales.

[Rolls]

Guess it all comes down to the tune, if tuned to be safe on the track would it still make >300kw with the richer afrs and less timing?

[dori34]

Yeah for sure, I think a internally gated 20g would suck balls.

Thats the thing were all speculating though, if we can replicate or exceed 2835 Pro S results with an externally gated 20g.

Yet to be honest the HG stuff meets and exceeds a lot of expectations of many turbos available.. The only thing I truly question is the opperating temperatures when pushed to the limit.

Stao would you bring your car to a race track and let someone test this scenario? If it could be proven that the turbo would run at optimal temperatures even when belted on the track you may find yourself looking at more sales.

This. cause all the testing on the dyno only plays a small part in his testing phase.

to test the potential and longevity of these turbos, it will need to be tested on he track .

[GTScotT]

Guess it all comes down to the tune, if tuned to be safe on the track would it still make >300kw with the richer afrs and less timing?

To get it on the safe side you could still make the numbers, but you would need to sacrafice some response in a lazier tune.

I tend to believe when tuning to limits you could generally tune to a higher number or a faster car, the faster car being tuned harder and running hotter. I also tend to believe the harder you ramp the thing on the earlier it will fall over. Yes I am saying the same accumulation of parts could have a higher powerband when tuned differently, but speed is torque and torque is midrange. Tune to the focus of torque and mid and your numbers are sure to be sacraficed to do it.

To tune for all out response and power you would need to push the tune pretty hard with some finesse. This is why I do not bawk at lazier results from customer result compared to Stao's own results. I believe Stao's car gets a quality tune every time that makes the most of the turbo's, I would love to test Stao's car on the track or twisties and honestly see if I can break it.

[ARTZ]

I just wish all these turbos would do a run down the 1/4 mile before being pulled out again..

All these paper only results but no times is getting tedious and boring...