Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[Hanaldo]

My KU36s when a bit worn were quite bad in the wet, certainly worse then a standard decent road tyre. The worst part is that it wasnt progressive and just broke loose on me a couple of times.

Yeh mine do the same, not very good in the wet

[Rolls]

My KU36s when a bit worn were quite bad in the wet, certainly worse then a standard decent road tyre. The worst part is that it wasnt progressive and just broke loose on me a couple of times.

I didn't find them worse than any other tyre personally, but everything else did what you described in the wet when less than 75% as well.

[Birds]

KU31 are pretty good in the wet considering their cost. Straight line traction is almost on par with their dry performance

[Rolls]

KU31 are pretty good in the wet considering their cost. Straight line traction is almost on par with their dry performance

When you are getting up above 240kw though I personally want something grippier.

[hypergear]

Little updates on the GenEses electric superchargers:

The dawning is roughly complete, we will sit them on the CNC next week to have every thing cut out. Basically it is a consealed duel ceramic ball bearing ATR46 billet version turbocharger running on 3x 100 amps 12V motor in sum of 7HP. It does not require water or oil feeding.

I've designed a mini gearbox with 1:8 ratio to up speed the RPMs of the comp wheel to roughly 25000 RPMs. Also keen to see differences from 1:10 and 1:15 ratios during evaluation

This should generate about 1 bar of pressure when powered at neutral, Since pressure - vacuum = boost. it should make 10psi of boost depending on the engine size.

I will be testing it on my Rb25det with turbo discounted. Assume every thing works as planed (never have) I should see 10psi when I activate the device and it will bleed down to roughly 6psi by 7000RPMs. Thats not alot of boost, How ever 6psi top end with 10psi mid range from a 1000HP turbo compressor should make some power.

It will require 2x good quality 12v batteries in a parallel setup for this to work. I will post photos once its assembled.

[ARTZ]

Little updates on the GenEses electric superchargers:

The dawning is roughly complete, we will sit them on the CNC next week to have every thing cut out. Basically it is a consealed duel ceramic ball bearing ATR46 billet version turbocharger running on 3x 100 amps 12V motor in sum of 7HP. It does not require water or oil feeding.

I've designed a mini gearbox with 1:8 ratio to up speed the RPMs of the comp wheel to roughly 25000 RPMs. Also keen to see differences from 1:10 and 1:15 ratios during evaluation

This should generate about 1 bar of pressure when powered at neutral, Since pressure - vacuum = boost. it should make 10psi of boost depending on the engine size.

I will be testing it on my Rb25det with turbo discounted. Assume every thing works as planed (never have) I should see 10psi when I activate the device and it will bleed down to roughly 6psi by 7000RPMs. Thats not alot of boost, How ever 6psi top end with 10psi mid range from a 1000HP turbo compressor should make some power.

It will require 2x good quality 12v batteries in a parallel setup for this to work. I will post photos once its assembled.

that will pit alot of drain on your alternator ,added to that extra weight of the batteries needed..

Is'nt this kind of self defeating the point of having extra power?

[hypergear]

The stock alternator for a Skyline is 14V 60Amp I believe, I will need other small bits and pieces to make the circuit complete. I will think through it once I get the charger working first.

[ARTZ]

The stock alternator for a Skyline is 14V 60Amp I believe, I will need other small bits and pieces to make the circuit complete. I will think through it once I get the charger working first.

I wont go into tecnicalities because I honestly dont know..

But what I do know is having a electric charger strong enough to create power under load will cause a very large drain on your electrical system.a stocl alternator simply wont cope...you can fix this with a bigger (much bigger) alternator but running that will rob your engine of power..plus the extra weight of the whole system is going to slow you down..

..I did read a few topics years ago where people have attempted it, and the small power increase just wasnt worth the effort..

[hypergear]

Yes, I've noticed that. Its not a ducting fan in side a tube. Those ones can't produce any boost. mine is engineered to produce about 7psi of inlet manifold boost pressure.

I don't think the batteries power drawn will affect a lot of engine’s performance as the car's only using electricity for its electrical components, comes to the worst, car stalls and won't fire up.

I will run it on an insolated power source to make sure the charger it self actually work first. Then sort out the power drawn and other electrical related issues.

[Bond]

But what I do know is having a electric charger strong enough to create power under load will cause a very large drain on your electrical system.a stocl alternator simply wont cope.

The current will be provided by the battery and the the alternator can recharge the battery as needed. Plus the battery will prob not accept the 60 or so amps available by the alternator. This is exactly what happens with an electric winch on a 4wd. The winch on my patrol draw around 600+ amps and does so for 3-4 minutes before i give it a 5 min rest and the go again. The alternator does bugger all during that time as it can only supply 40-50 amps to the winch. I also only use one battery in the patrol and have a battery in the boot of the r33 that is big enough to do the same.

[ARTZ]

are u putting it on a turbo or NA engine and how much power do you want it to make?

[Rolls]

I wont go into tecnicalities because I honestly dont know..

But what I do know is having a electric charger strong enough to create power under load will cause a very large drain on your electrical system.a stocl alternator simply wont cope...you can fix this with a bigger (much bigger) alternator but running that will rob your engine of power..plus the extra weight of the whole system is going to slow you down..

..I did read a few topics years ago where people have attempted it, and the small power increase just wasnt worth the effort..

What you are talking about is a purely electrical super charger, I totally agree that this simply requires far too much electrical power and being as you would increase the load on the alternator you might as well mechanically drive it.

I can see merit in stao's case though as he is aiming to simply just prespool the turbo making it come onto boost faster as it is already spinning at 25(?)% of the rpm needed for full boost. I am very interested in how much of an increase in boost response this could create.

Something I am curious about though is when the turbo is on full boost are you going to turn off the electrical pre spool device? As if the turbo is spinning faster than the electrical motor would spin it to, eg it is doing 100,000rpm and the motor can only spin it to 50,000rpm it would actually be working as an alternator instead of an electric motor, this would cause it to suck power, eg it would create a drag on the turbo slowing it down so you need some sort of control circuit that will turn it off when boost is >x psi.

How are you planning on doing this stao?

edit: Have I got this wrong and it is an electric supercharger? Or is it a turbo with an electrified bearing cartridge with a gear that can allow it to be mechanically (electrically) driven?

Edited September 14, 2011 by Rolls

[ARTZ]

ahh ok..so there is more to this than meets the eye...

i got the feeling it was just an electric supercharger...

[SargeRX8]

What you are talking about is a purely electrical super charger, I totally agree that this simply requires far too much electrical power and being as you would increase the load on the alternator you might as well mechanically drive it.

I can see merit in stao's case though as he is aiming to simply just prespool the turbo making it come onto boost faster as it is already spinning at 25(?)% of the rpm needed for full boost. I am very interested in how much of an increase in boost response this could create.

Something I am curious about though is when the turbo is on full boost are you going to turn off the electrical pre spool device? As if the turbo is spinning faster than the electrical motor would spin it to, eg it is doing 100,000rpm and the motor can only spin it to 50,000rpm it would actually be working as an alternator instead of an electric motor, this would cause it to suck power, eg it would create a drag on the turbo slowing it down so you need some sort of control circuit that will turn it off when boost is >x psi.

How are you planning on doing this stao?

edit: Have I got this wrong and it is an electric supercharger? Or is it a turbo with an electrified bearing cartridge with a gear that can allow it to be mechanically (electrically) driven?

From what I can see it looks like an turbo which has 3 motors which will control a "gearbox" to directly drive the turbo when there is no load. What I want to understand is when you will disengage the gearbox. I'm going to assume there is some clutching system or mechanics to seperate the gearbox from the shaft of the turbo to let the turbo spin freely once its taken off, but when will you tell it to let go? Maybe you can have a boost sensor and when the car reaches 6psi after the TB it will tell your unit to disengage. I'm sure you have this all figured out though.

[Rolls]

That is what I am curious about, how is the device activated/disabled, how seamless can this change be and how fast can it happen?

[hypergear]

I'm planning to enable it with either a switch or some thing to the throttle cable or the acceleration paddle. The time it’s going to be activated for is only for couple of secs at once so it shouldn't cause too much drama with the backup battery.

I can run it with an big turbocharger making it a twin sequential setup. How ever I think it will be most beneficial to the NA guys.

From what I can see it looks like an turbo which has 3 motors which will control a "gearbox" to directly drive the turbo when there is no load. What I want to understand is when you will disengage the gearbox. I'm going to assume there is some clutching system or mechanics to seperate the gearbox from the shaft of the turbo to let the turbo spin freely once its taken off, but when will you tell it to let go? Maybe you can have a boost sensor and when the car reaches 6psi after the TB it will tell your unit to disengage. I'm sure you have this all figured out though.

I think the motors will run out of torque to generate any thing more then 6psi, as the boost is a form of compressed air that has a counter force acting against the compressor blades slowing it down or spin it backwards just like when BOV is not present. So it’s reaching an equilibrium pressure level.

Also on the same time if more boost is discharged into the engine then there will be less counter pressure allow faster shaft speed might result none boost drop as equilibrium state does not change change in energy input level.

[Bond]

I totally agree that this simply requires far too much electrical power and being as you would increase the load on the alternator you might as well mechanically drive it.

I think it was explained before with a current and valid example that it would not cause too much load on the alternator. If the alternator was rated at 600 amps then yes it would take all the power purely from alternator and thus put quite a load on the engine. 600 Amps for a short period from a decent battery is not hard at all. Think of it as pulling stored energy from a battery and then being trickle charged from the alternator.

Something I am curious about though is when the turbo is on full boost are you going to turn off the electrical pre spool device? As if the turbo is spinning faster than the electrical motor would spin it to, eg it is doing 100,000rpm and the motor can only spin it to 50,000rpm it would actually be working as an alternator instead of an electric motor, this would cause it to suck power, eg it would create a drag on the turbo slowing it down so you need some sort of control circuit that will turn it off when boost is >x psi.

If the electric motor is in open circuit then there would be no current draw and no extra load (besides what it needed to spin it in the first place). Do you think your alternator puts out full amps all the time while driving?

I'm not saying this will work but its definitely not unachievable. A couple of brushless motors that are directly on the shaft could work. I don't see why it should be disengaged at all.....surely the spooling from the motors would negate the added weight.

[Bond]

http://autospeed.com/A_110994/cms/article.html

[Stevoss]

any results on a rb2530? Would a ss2 be restrictive? Or would a atr43 g4 with .82 be more suitable?

[hypergear]

any results on a rb2530? Would a ss2 be restrictive? Or would a atr43 g4 with .82 be more suitable?

Need ATR43G3 or G4 to work on the RB2530det. Not sure about SS3 in .83 but all other SS series are too small for that engine.