Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[Lonewolf1983]

Good street turbo for RB20dets is very different to RB25dets. Its more categoried into a 4cyc class. Ie. they will works heaps better with a turbo thats made for a 2L 4cyc engine. I would recommend the ATR43SS, There are 2x versions which is in similar specifications as a 2860RS and a 2871RS in .64 bolton rear housing. Those works beautifully with RB20det.

Any figures or graphs of said turbo's on a 20det? (i know most of your work is based around the 25's).

And pricing?

Thanks!

[R31Nismoid]

But where is this 1000RPMs better response. Can you get better responese turbo at $1000 more?

This is a $1450 turbo here. No cam gears, no cams, 98 fuel, internally gated, fully stock Rb25det none Neo engine setup. 3 hours to install. 200rwkws @ 4000RPMs. Show me what you have better with $1000 extra based on the same setup. Show me 200rwkws @ 3000RPMs.

Where did i say 1000rpm better response? I didn't.

I said quite clearly - power band. Useable RPM range.

All your dyno sheets tend to end @ 7,000rpm.

Most results you've shown tend to show a drop that usually starts around 6500rpm - a power band of 2500rpm (4000-6500).

If the sheet goes to 7500 (i think i saw one?), the drop was quite big (30-40rwkw IIRC).

To date you've not really answered when questioned about it in 2-3 threads now, and I'm not the only one that keeps asking.

I've not seen a 3071/3076 drop off that harsh ever.

[SABBAi]

Fark Ash.

Take a look at the guys who would buy a 3076R. How many of them are going for a stock-position-next-to-no-mods-stock-looking fitment? If I was bolting a 3076R to anything, I wouldn't be using a stock manifold, intake pipe, and I wouldn't be staying internal gate either.

Also, don't discount the tune and boost control. Tune for max torque or top end power? Boost control can also play a big part in power delivery, which will affect the power made at any give rpm.

Take it for what it is. A cheap bolt on alternative that makes decent power that will look close enough to stock to not raise too many eyebrows.

[DVS JEZ]

agreed, also cam timing can have an effect, but give the guy a break,

every one that has used his turbos are happy with the results,

havent seen anyone come on here saying i used hypergear and his turbos are crap.

[hypergear]

Ash What you talking about. Go and check the Dyno sheet section. None cars would stay on peek power band for ever. How many of them are going for 7500RPMS? This is a fully stock engine head with stock cams and cam gears. Unless head work is done they can not hold power at 7000RPMS + with internal gate. Unless its a massive turbo or a large external gate.

The drop would be more related to the engine it self rather then a turbo. Add cam gears you fix it.

None one is going to rev up to 7000RPMs+. and the 500RPMs is not a useful power band either.

EDIT 14/10/10: The power drop was from operator throttle back off around rev limiter per comments by tuner in page 55 Some of the discussions below which I believed during the time been might not be relevant.

[Trozzle]

Also Ash, almost all of Stao's customers are using their Hypergear turbo on a street-driven car. Mine is my daily for example. Unless I wheelspin into the limiter, I rarely even see myself over 6000rpm anyway. Hell, I almost never do. Too much noise, and really no point when I'm more than likely exceeding the speed limit by the time my power "drops off" in 2nd gear. Don't even talk about 3rd gear unless we wanna get the thread locked, as I'm well and truly speeding my way to a loss of license.

If you're using these turbos on a track car, then you aren't totally serious about your times and competition. Let's face it, anyone who owns a dedicated track car that isn't driven on the street/daily can afford, and will buy the "better" Garrett options. This is simply because they more than likely have money to throw around for teh lulz.

[hypergear]

Prof my point that the power drop is related to the cams. Ie:

Identical spec OP6 standard high flow

This turbo fitted on to a car with cam gears:

This one is running stock cam gears:

Notice the power band in between 20000RPMs to 6000RPMs, and after 6000RPMs.

So for better results get a $50 cam gear.

Plus I'm not considering any of my turbos are downgraded from Garretts. We've used Garrett GT3076 as a foundation with wheel trim and size adjustments for a better performer on a stock RB25det.

[limpus]

What turbo is that on the dr drift graph? it also says external gate on the op6 housing...not a valid comparison...

For just a little more...people would be silly not to go a 3071 or 3076 every single time...they can be fitted down low in the standard position and be made to look stock...hell...even gt35s can be mounted down low...so stealth is not an issue...and now with the favourable exchange rate to the US dollar...you can get a proper garrett and sleep easy knowing you've got the best product for your money...

[R31Nismoid]

You do it again...

1st graph, ends @ 6700rpm

2nd graph, ends @ 7000rpm

Both virtually fall over in the exact same place, a minor variance across two dyno's is all they show.

The drop would be more related to the engine it self rather then a turbo. Add cam gears you fix it.

None one is going to rev up to 7000RPMs+. and the 500RPMs is not a useful power band either.

I don't believe the stock cams/gears are causing issues. Guilt Toy - factory RB25 cams/heads, no cam gears etc. Admittedly it was a GT35, but if they such problems with smaller turbos, he'd have a bigger issue with a turbo that flows another 150hp more now wouldn't he?

RB26 cams are only marginally different in spec and run 400rwkw (as another example).

Anyway I'm out - you blame everything that has been proven not to be a issue

Oh Scott - we are talking about 2k price tagged turbo's now (bottom of pg51 this carries from), and will they have the same "issues" as the current cheaper ones.

For 2k I'd want to have such questions investigated/answered.

[hypergear]

What turbo is that on the dr drift graph? it also says external gate on the op6 housing...not a valid comparison...

They are exact same profiled high flow with OP6 rear housing. Except Sam is running on external gate and cam gears. Only proven the effects of having such mods instead of the actual turbo.

Not against Garrett, we use their parts, rebuild / high flow their turbos and retail their goods all day every day.

The ATR43 project is a delicate turbo that is specifically made for RB25dets for optimised result on stock setup. which our results have spoken for themselves.

You do it again...

1st graph, ends @ 6700rpm

2nd graph, ends @ 7000rpm

Both virtually fall over in the exact same place, a minor variance across two dyno's is all they show.

I don't believe the stock cams/gears are causing issues. Guilt Toy - factory RB25 cams/heads, no cam gears etc. Admittedly it was a GT35, but if they such problems with smaller turbos, he'd have a bigger issue with a turbo that flows another 150hp more now wouldn't he?

RB26 cams are only marginally different in spec and run 400rwkw (as another example).

The 300RPMs would be from a slight wheel spin. Sam's not backing off throttle for 300RPMS. This only point out the difference this could make by using Cam gears and external gates. Any one can tell the difference in the shape of curves.

Sam's not running as much boost as the other car did. In your theroy both of them should drop off exact amount which is not the case.

You've already descriped how marginal difference in cams could alter the power put. With solid results I've already answered your question.

Guit toy is not running on 98 fuel (or internal gate). I haven't read all his posts in the tread, but this is one thing that I did notice. Plus GT35 wheel does not drop with stock setup. Which is what I've said by running a larger turbo or with large external gate.

This is a ATR45, or you can refer as customized GT3582. note there is no drop in power. The car's not been strapped it is wheel spinning on the rollers. It will still be the best responding bolton turbo for its power based on 98 fuel and fully stock engine.

[geraus]

Tao tell them about mine, mines fast!!!! and what specs was mine again??

[limpus]

This is a ATR45, or you can refer as customized GT3582. note there is no drop in power. The car's not been strapped it is wheel spinning on the rollers. It will still be the best responding bolton turbo for its power based on 98 fuel and fully stock engine.

Except for a proper genuine garrett gt35...be it a 0.63 or 0.82 rear...even a garrett 3076 with a 0.82 or 1.06 rear will make close to or as much as that at 22psi...with better response...on an unopened engine...or stock as you love to say so much...so like so many times before...you've made a false claim and you're wrong....

I'm tired too of pointing out such things...go ahead and claim whatever you want to claim...its up to SAU and your customers to decide...

[hypergear]

Except for a proper genuine garrett gt35...be it a 0.63 or 0.82 rear...even a garrett 3076 with a 0.82 or 1.06 rear will make close to or as much as that at 22psi...with better response...on an unopened engine...or stock as you love to say so much...so like so many times before...you've made a false claim and you're wrong....

I'm tired too of pointing out such things...go ahead and claim whatever you want to claim...its up to SAU and your customers to decide...

Please prof me wrong by show me an example of your claimed GT3076 int gated claim with 98 fuel making that power on unopened engine.

I've not seen a 3071/3076 drop off that harsh ever.

Have a read in the dynosheet section your self. Every sing GT30xx int gated turbo over 260rwkws on stock RB25det without cams or cam gears have the exact same drop off point. Except not all of them are scaled upto 7000RPMs.

All I need is a pair of cam gears to alter the whole power curve. How ever that curve is pointless.

[limpus]

This is a ATR45, or you can refer as customized GT3582. note there is no drop in power. The car's not been strapped it is wheel spinning on the rollers. It will still be the best responding bolton turbo for its power based on 98 fuel and fully stock engine.

What do you mean that there is no drop in power...FFS...it falls over at 5800rpm...on a turbo claimed to be the similar to a gt35 on a standard rb25...it should not be doing that...again...BS claims...

Please prof me wrong by show me an example of your claimed GT3076 int gated claim with 98 fuel making that power on unopened engine.

Again...read what i have said again...i said close to or as much to that figure for a 3076...if not then look towards a gt35 instead like i said...i'm not going to go through the entire dyno thread to disprove your BS...like i said...go ahead and claim away...in fact...i'll do it for you...

**Hypergear turbos are the best...compared to garrett equivalents they spool faster...make more power...and are cheaper...all on a STOCK engine...***

[hypergear]

What do you mean that there is no drop in power...FFS...it falls over at 5800rpm...on a turbo claimed to be the similar to a gt35 on a standard rb25...it should not be doing that....

Read my reply. The car was not strapped down. Dynorun was to 7000RPMS, Low RPM reading was due to wheel Spin. Dr.Drift has already address it in earlier post. PM and ask him your self.

Again...read what i have said again...i said close to or as much to that figure for a 3076...if not then look towards a gt35 instead like i said...i'm not going to go through the entire dyno thread to disprove your ...like i said...go ahead and claim away...in fact...i'll do it for you...

I'm telling you that a 76mm 56T comp wheel in GT30 turbine or a GT3582 in .63 turbine will be struggling to achieve 320rwkws.

Even you do go through the whole dyno section you can not find one that can do that.

The purpose of this thread is for the test and trail of our high flows services, custom build turbo profiles based on various engines and a collection of data sheets. I would appreciate if people can post geninue quires and I'll be happy to assist with data. I do not appreciate people here posting abusive comments. Please keep it clean and technical. Thank you all.

[Harey]

What turbo is that on the dr drift graph? it also says external gate on the op6 housing...not a valid comparison...

For just a little more...people would be silly not to go a 3071 or 3076 every single time...they can be fitted down low in the standard position and be made to look stock...hell...even gt35s can be mounted down low...so stealth is not an issue...and now with the favourable exchange rate to the US dollar...you can get a proper garrett and sleep easy knowing you've got the best product for your money...

And get defected the first time you get pulled over and have to go through all the heartache of putting it back to standard and the rest of that crap. Not to mention the embarassment of getting defected with work colleagues or family in the car. Not everyone has multiple cars to choose from.

How is $3k for a garrett kit which contains more parts just a little more than $1450 bolt-on (hence less labour cost as well)??

Noone is bagging garrett but there certainly is a place for Hypergear bolt on hi flow turbos.

[boostn0199]

Give him a break, he does good work and is constantly trying to upgrade and bring out better products for us to have a go with at a cheaper price.

At the end of the day the job is yours to pick what turbo you want to buy either it be hypergears or garett or whatever else. I dont understand what the problem is, Stao provides dyno results of all hes turbos and everyone has access to dyno results to the other turbos on the market so go look at them yourself and whatever you feel is better for go with that. Theres no need to always try to argue the fact here putting the work he does down. As I said before everyone decides for themselves what they want.

[Rolls]

Stao I think the point nismoid etc are getting at is that if you ran all your dyno runs to 7500rpm and compared a GT30 to it the GT30 would hold peak power for 500-1000rpm longer, at least that is how I am reading it, the highflows all seem to drop off peak power after 6000-6500rpm no doubt due to the internal gate starting to choke.

For the money, the stock fitment and lack of needing external gate etc your turbos clearly are value for money, I don't think anyone has said they aren't.

Pros and cons people, you want stock fitment and no external gate then I just can't see anyway of holding peak power all the way to a 7500rpm limit, if you don't care about the stock look then a gt30 will no doubt have not much more lag and will hold the power for longer but at an added cost.

Question, has anyone ever tried tacking an external gate onto the stock manifold? Would probably be a complete waste of money when you can go an externally gated turbo + manifold but I'm curious how it would go.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Rolls

[SimonR32]

Question, has anyone ever tried tacking an external gate onto the stock manifold? Would probably be a complete waste of money when you can go an externally gated turbo + manifold but I'm curious how it would go.

Yes, but there is a few problems.

First the standard manifold is split pulse so cutting a hole for a gate removes the dividers and screws up the flow of gases

Second the standard manifolds don't like the be welded being cast and usually crack not long after being cut and shut

A much better option if you want to keep the standard manifold is weld a gate to the rear housing of the turbo... Hypergear provide this service to customers I believe

Edited October 13, 2010 by SimonR32

[hypergear]

By reading up the dynosheet section is appears every GT30xx internally gated turbo on unopened motor that has managed to crack over 260rwkws has this drop after 6500RPMs. While externally gated and camed setups seems to have less or none.

Cams and cam gears also helped, I will consult with Trent or Sam in terms of best cam gear angle and setups.

It Could be external gate have bleeded out some heat to give the turbo a slight better efficiency up top. But it would be pretty difficult to get internally gated. Or we can go up size in housing and turbine wheel, which also give similar effects with lag.

For the best result would be running a 50mm external gate with cam setup. That should eliminate the drop and possibily more top end. How ever for a road car this would be a pretty big EPA issue.

Also if I run external gate and plumb it back, then wouldn't this be considered as road legal "internal" gate?