Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[hypergear]

Thanks for the input Disco, that would share us with more light into the turbo systems of the EVO series.

When making a customized compressor wheel, the size of the actual wheel no longer represent the approximate power output, how ever depending on blade and hub profiles, plus individual preferences.

In comparison. I'm pretty certain that the the standard 74mm SS2BB with .82 turbine is a very close match in terms of power and response to the HTA3076. And VNT result of that is in page 395.

SS3 is closer to a 3582 equivalent, and pretty laggy in standard .82 turbine housing. I've only built 3 of those in the past and one of them was a high flow that made 344rwkws on E85 Auto, internally gated, stock manifold as a factory replacement.

[petero'nell]

Stao did you end up working the SS1PU VNT turbine housing? I've already got one of those installed how much is for that housing by it self? Very interested in the comparison.

[XRATED]

Stao did you end up working the SS1PU VNT turbine housing? I've already got one of those installed how much is for that housing by it self? Very interested in the comparison.

I'm pretty keen to see how a SS1PU VNT is going to shape up.

[scotty nm35]

Engine wise the Evo 7 (GSR) was a carry over from the Evo 6 but they changed (I think) to hollow camshafts and added EGR .

Turbo wise the larger heavier Cedia based E7 went back from the Evo 6s 10.5 cm turbine housing to a similar 9.8cm sized one with the cold side unchanged . The std torque peak moved up noticably 500 odd revs from Evo 6 to 7 and I think they went looking for earlier turbo response to try and get some mid range squirt back . Also they would have been struggling with emissions in that 2001 era hence EGR etc .

The 8MR and 9s also use the 10.5cm turbine housing but its not the same as the E6 10.5 , instead of two holes and two wastegate flat valves the later one has double "D" shaped outlets mirror imaged to form a circle and uses one large waste gate disc/flat valve . Many people consider them to be better than the E6 one and you'd think Mitsy changed them to get better results . The thing is Mitsy kept increasing std boost levels right through the Evo Lancer models up to I think 21 psi with the 10s . People say the early 10.5s can crack over time and replacing them fixes some boost issues caused by the leaking gates .

Mark at GT Pumps used to sell an aftermarket 10.8cm direct replacement turbine housing which people like . I've been in a 7 with one of these on a std turbo with the IC pipe changed plus the exhaust after cast dump and E70 , its a bit of a weapon for a roadie and drives nicely as you'd expect with std valves cams etc .

A .

I dropped the Evo 7 stock turbo off to Stao tonight, we compared the housings to another customer's and could barely see a difference, although my 7 turbo had a 10.5 rear, and the evo 10 turbo had a .98 rear. Should be interesting to see what a completely stock looking setup can achieve. (still need to register the car) For now I plan to run the backwards billet ss2 in stock housings with the Manley 2.3 stroker kit on stock cams and exhaust, with the possibility of e85 in the tank.

[methz]

Ive got a mate scotty who has an evo 7 or 8 im not sure on that bit, he is using his stock turbine housing with a upgraded billet front 25g wheel and anti surged cover, on 33psi e85 and running around 330awkw, very quick setup, he is now building motor to 2.3ltr for 360awkw in stock housing, upgrading the turbine wheel this time.

Edited July 7, 2013 by methz

[GTScotT]

IIRC the evo x housing is 12cm, which you wouldn't see the difference on the outside.

Also a 10.5cm is probably .7-8 AR with the TD05H inside. So .98 for stock evo x is probably right.

[discopotato03]

This could be lengthy and not Nissan related . Scotty absolutely your call but I'd be researching MiVec 4G63 heads first because having variable timing on the inlet cam is supposed to make a considerable difference to the low end torque . Don't quote me but I think I remember reading that Evo 9 exhaust cams are the warmest of the std cams and the low end with a Mivec head is noticably stronger even with hotter cams .<br />Now I'm not 100% sure but I did read that Mivec was not just a VCT change and head cooling was improved behind the exhaust side of the chambers and exhaust ports . They use a smaller diameter long reach spark plug similer to bike engines and it's all to do with improved cooling and detonation resistance . I can't remember for sure but 9s may have run 17+ pounds of boost standard and with even good pump fuel they obviously found problems because its unusual for a manufacturer to spend money on an enging towards the end of its life . Emissions may have forced their hand a bit here .<br /><br />There is lots of info out there on stroking 4G63s but the thing I noticed was that the Japanese kits never went as far as the American or locally sold ones . Off the top of my head a 4G63 has an 88mm stroke and 85mm bore but the rods are a reasonable length . Mitsy made larger capacity 4G family engines like (numbers from memory)4G64 and 4G69 . The 64 uses a taller block and a bigger bore with a 100mm stroke crank . I think the 69 uses the same block height with a 100mm stroke crank and shorter rods . From memory the 69 is a Mivec engine cooling wise . The Americans are all over 100mm strokers and often use the taller 4G64 block to get a bit better rod/stroke ratio - its all there on Evom.net .<br />The Japanese do I think 94mm stroke kits and these may work a bit better in a 4G63 height block . Mark at GT Pumps has a 2.3 stroker 63 in his car and he did tell me that they can have bore ring issues if you flog the tits off them rev wise - too much thrust on the bores with 100mm stroke and shorter rods I suppose .<br />A feller at work has a different Evo 7 GSR with a Jap stroker kit and its an animal he reckons if he boots it around .<br />I believe it has a mild high flow but not to sure whats in it .<br />PLEASE don't try using same compressor family 18 and 20G wheels with the std TH05HR turbine , very easy conversion vith really laggy results . The jury is still out on the HKS BB 4G63 Evo turbo , early ones had I think wastegate arm problems something like Garretts GT3076R Evo 10 turbos did .<br />Also , best to start out with an Evo 9 style center section because the cold end "flange" is larger in diameter than the earlier 4-8 twin scroll reverse rotation turbos . The 9 turbos use a larger diameter diffuser section and the larger 9 style compressor housing won't go on the 4-8 turbos smaller "flange" so to speak .<br />Because the compressor housing is different the tube on the outlet is different I think to miss something on the front face of the engine . Aftermarket ones are said to flow a lot better than the OE 9s steel one and I think Mark sells the good ones . There may also be a minor difference in the oil drain tube and I believe the early one can work but to be 100% sure a 9 ones probably best . LOL I also read that you bolt it to the turbo before you mount it - saves some agro it seems .<br /><br />Lastly my tuner reckons that many of these "coloured" Evo turbo upgrades still lose torque down low an I reckon the more material you bore out of an OE turbine housing the less efficient the turbine/housing combination becomes .<br />Geoff Denmead sold me my E6 and I reckon he knows a bit about them because ha won his class at Pikes Peak a couple of years back . He continues to beat on the dirt and hill climbs other Evos with "cheater" or std "looking" turbos mainly because they loose the lower mid range you need in competition . He uses a bluprinted Evo 8 turbo I think with a 10.5cm turbine housing .<br />I think people confuse minimul lag with close short gearing in an Evo Lancer because that makes it easy to get away with engines lacking torque down low - and its this low to mid range torque in an engine that still revs freely to 7 that makes an Evo feel fast . With good tyres they explode out of the blocks provided the clutch is good because they can put all their power to the ground - all that low to mid range torque with solid all paw traction . When they lose this torque they feel a bit flat unless doing big rev launches and thats not going to be good for the driveline .<br /><br />I'll wind up with gearing . My 6GSR has close ratios 1-2-3 with larger gaps 3-4-5 which is fine on the road because the short one get you going . If you want performance over highway cruising the RS ratios are close 3-4-5 as well and the 6RSs had an optional 4.8 something diff ratios , I think GSRs are roughly 4.5 .<br />The RS gearing is supposed to be very quick driven flat out through the gears and they can take them all to the redline . The Evos had all this available through the Ralliart factory arm because they , the 4/5/6 RSs anyway , were Grp A homologation specials .<br /><br />Sorry one more , diffs . It your cars cained often think about losing the AYC rear one for the RS mechanical one because its lighter stronger and more predictable . ACD can be good and there are now people here who can flash it's computer rather than being raped by Ralliart for their black box .<br /><br />Having said all this I still miss driving my Skyline if its away being worked on and I have to resort to the white rat .<br /><br />Such is life cheers A .<br /><br />BTW I think the Evo 10s turbine housing is 12cm but that ones a clockwise rotation turbo .

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-engine-turbo-drivetrain/414293-size-evo-x-turbo.html

Edited July 8, 2013 by discopotato03

[scotty nm35]

Seems the turbo Stao built isn't off a 10 then, it was reverse rotation.

I would have loved a 4g64 block but I was worried the engine number change would make it harder to register, and I prefer to leave the original motor in there for some chance of looking stock. I won't be revving the crap out of it, 8k hard cut should be fine. I am expecting the highflow to be on boost by 3.5-4k with the non Mivec head. I will have to look into the 7rs diff as I have heard the AYC will crap out.

Whilst I would love a Mivec head, I just got the call my 7 head is rebuilt. Gotta go.

[jet_r31]

Discopotato- you need to use some paragraphs!..lol

cheers

darren

[GTSBoy]

I think he tried. SAU's editor has been all sorts of shit for the last while.

[MoJizzy]

I'm pretty keen to see how a SS1PU VNT is going to shape up.

Ya, me too, got my ss1pu back in November and this new VNT housing sounds like it'll make quite a difference on the bottom end response on SR20.

[hypergear]

The turbocharger is complete. I'm waiting for Trent to come back from the UK to tune it. I've also made an even more advanced VNT system, it should be able to knock lag out even further, Looking to trail it on the SS4CBB turbocharger. Hopping to archive 20psi before 4000RPMs and 450rwkws+.

[Joshbigt62r]

This sounds mental. Cannot wait to see these results stao. When the price comes down to about $1700 I'll be buying one of these VNT bb turbos. can't wait.

[Trozzle]

Will the SS4CBB VNT fit on my VW Caddy 1.6L TDi?

Cmonnnnnnnnn

[hypergear]

Will the SS4CBB VNT fit on my VW Caddy 1.6L TDi?

Cmonnnnnnnnn

Yes and I think I can make it street drive able too.

[jet_r31]

so sizing wise compared to say a garrett offering what is the ss4?

cheers

darren

[89CAL]

so sizing wise  compared to say a garrett offering what is the ss4?

cheers

darren

GT3582 I think?

[hypergear]

SS4 is currently offered as a Ford XR6 BA / BF upgrade. Its similar to a GTX3582. Expecting to make around the 450rwkws mark on E85.

[GTScotT]

Its like we are all out of breath.. I too want a VNT unit on my car :-(

C'mon, please lol

[hypergear]

Let me see how the SS1PU goes first. I think for some thing that is already that super responsive, by making it even more responsive might rise surge issues.