Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[copycutter]

He said its finally come good after all these tunes. Hahaha.

We were both happy to go into 20+psi territory but it started slipping straight away. He estimates at least 320 once clutch is sorted. Either way I'm stoked, the car is so different.

[copycutter]

Thanks Scott, can't wait to get a trap speed. I'm pretty confident about 120mph with this setup. Last time got 109mph all night with pump gas, 250kw and all those restrictions.

[Super Drager]

He said its finally come good after all these tunes. Hahaha.

We were both happy to go into 20+psi territory but it started slipping straight away. He estimates at least 320 once clutch is sorted. Either way I'm stoked, the car is so different.

So what was the problem with the previous tunes?

[GTScotT]

does that mean you have now gone to E85?

[copycutter]

Basically car was spark/knock limited on 98 to 255kw.

Then switched to e85 only got 266kw.

Then changed to bigger brand name cooler, bellmouth dump and bored out/smoothed the turbo rear housing flange platen and removed a shagged mid muffler.

Retune to 304 today

[copycutter]

Been on e85 for 5000km/6 months now

[Hanaldo]

I've got an interior video with the go pro of my last run, ill post it tomorrow. In the video you can see my boost gauge, and you can see it takes a good 1-1.5 seconds to build back up to full boost between gears.

[GTScotT]

Im pretty sure 1 second to build boost back up is bad mmmkay.

Will wait to see le video

[Trozzle]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't this constant whinging about lack of trap speeds to back up the power figures nothing more than calling out the operators of any dyno a Hypergear turbo has made said power figures on for bullshitting their figures?

To me, all I've been reading here is people constantly suggesting tuners like Trent from STATUS/Chequered tuning are falsifying their power figures whenever a car running a Hypergear turbo is on the dyno. That's what this bickering is translating into.

Like I said, tell me I'm wrong.

[GTScotT]

I'm not suggesting that Trent's figures are wrong, but potentially the figures of other users not living up to the service they sold.

I myself have been a victim over the years of mechanics with poor attitudes. You tell them you have built something yourself, or using a third party product, and they are far less inclined to give the job their 100%. Let them build the car and use all brand name parts and they are suddenly happy to put in 200% and give you back a rocking car.

[Cowboy1600]

That's a good point, Troy. Stao only ever states "measured" figures.

I don't think the dyno operators falsify figures, but it does highlight the limitations of a dyno. They are best used for comparative power figures and loading motors for tuning, not for measuring outright power. In fact I reckon the best dyno would simply not have the axis labelled. You don't know how much actual power is being made but you can compare one graph with another and figure out if you've gone forwards or backwards.

[Lithium]

I specifically outlined when I mentioned that the trap speeds were low that the dyno doesn't always represent how a car will drive on the road, and that there could be other things at play. One way or another, the way these cars are going down the strip aren't representative of what you'd expect with that power level delivered in the manner an RB25 should be expected to be able to deliver it.

[methz]

not sure mph changes that much wether driver is accounted for or not. I know of a car running into the 8s at 160mph and also run 11 with wheel spin at exact same mph.. perhaps the turbos aren't the best between gear changes like u said 1.1.5sec between coming back onto boost, isn't good at all...

[hypergear]

My results are what the turbocharger's capable of making in a proper built setup, and there are many people who's done that made within the range. There is nothing wrong with Trent's dyno either as I've run on other dynos before and after his the difference is within 4kws.

There are variances in every one's cars just like Copycutter, you all just witnessed the performance differences by making a better setup, and perhaps work of a better tuner.

If the aim is at a very fast car then it needs to have that setup. No one is talking about power figures from a T67 on a Standard manifold and run it internally gated (247rwkws with drop of a cliff). Alternatively drop a SS2 or a G3 to whom ever's working T67 setup, that would again be a totally different boat of figures.

There is a chain of relations, but not a direct relation between a turbocharger, trap speed or power out put.

Far as turbocharger building and development, we practice the Japanese theory "Kaizen" . How ever there is nothing more I can possibly do, other then the part that I build.

[hypergear]

not sure mph changes that much wether driver is accounted for or not. I know of a car running into the 8s at 160mph and also run 11 with wheel spin at exact same mph.. perhaps the turbos aren't the best between gear changes like u said 1.1.5sec between coming back onto boost, isn't good at all...

Yes that was one of the things with the older G3 with none FNT or type A turbine to be improved. The current G3 is much better at it, and the SSxx series are even better again.

[Hanaldo]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't this constant whinging about lack of trap speeds to back up the power figures nothing more than calling out the operators of any dyno a Hypergear turbo has made said power figures on for bullshitting their figures?

To me, all I've been reading here is people constantly suggesting tuners like Trent from STATUS/Chequered tuning are falsifying their power figures whenever a car running a Hypergear turbo is on the dyno. That's what this bickering is translating into.

Like I said, tell me I'm wrong.

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm simply stating facts. My car made 350rwhp on the dyno but can barely run a 108. What that means I have no idea, but those are the numbers.

[GTScotT]

In relative terms it means you don't have 350HP.

Like I said, someone with 300rwkw needs to go out and do 120mph. Then everyone will know they just don't have the power their dyno says they do.

[Trozzle]

So black and white you're still suggesting that reputable tuners as mentioned previously are fudging their numbers in order to make customers happy. That's it. If someone with a HG turbo pulled 300rwkw on Trent's dyno (as Stao and others have done many times), they should absolutely run 120mph. If they don't (which they aren't), then they don't have 300rwkw - correct?

I'm not picking on anyone in particular here, nor am I suggesting that those of you questioning these trap speeds and power figures are actually suggesting reputable tuners are fudging figures. What I'm trying to get at here is that this "proven" correlation between power figures and trap speeds is not the be-all-end-all decider.

Example: put a T51 onto a CA18DET, and tune it appropriately to make 300rwkw. Take this car to the drags. Pull your 120mph.

[GTScotT]

I'm not wanting to say tuners are fudging numbers, no.

I am saying that dynos may be calibrated differently and reflect numbers which are inaccurate to real application as a result (not implying intent or malice). Thus when a customer comes in and says here's my setup, it should make up to 320kw and I would be happy with 280-300. The tuner then runs it up, hits the said number and gives the car back saying here you go - a nice and safe tune.

The tuner thinks they arent pushing the motor too hard and the end user thinks they are getting what they wanted. Yet if they pushed the turbo to its maximum it would probably get much more than 300kw and net the said 120mph.

In other words I think there are a lot of high reading dynos out there and lots of 'that will do' going on.

[Hanaldo]

In relative terms it means you don't have 350HP.

Like I said, someone with 300rwkw needs to go out and do 120mph. Then everyone will know they just don't have the power their dyno says they do.

Except I don't believe that to be the case. I am getting speeds close to that of a stock R34, yet I can beat modified XR6T's, etc. at Powercruise (so rolling start, 1/8 mile). I've got the videos to prove that. I walked my mates 450rwhp F6 Typhoon, yet when both cars were stock he had the edge on me.

I dunno, maybe that means nothing, but I just think it is more than multiple dynos inflating the power figure by over 100rwhp. That's 4 separate dynos that have given me that number, with 4 different tuners giving it what they can. What the actual cause is I can only guess, but I feel it is more to do with lag and less to do with the power figure. Trozz, I believe that is what you were getting at with that post as well?

Anyway, if you'll excuse the poor editing (tried new software, it's rubbish), here are the interior and exterior videos of my car at the drags. Sorry about the interior video being sideways, I will re upload these later and rotate it. But for now, if you don't mind holding your head on an angle, watch my boost gauge.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Hanaldo