Supercharging The V35

[Chris Rogers]

my offer still stands

[scathing]

apparently USA uses 91 octane which when converted to RON works out to be 98 RON

America's "octane rating" is the average between its RON and MON rating. If I remember correctly, and I probably don't, their 91 octane works out at 95RON and their 93 octane comes out at 98RON. It was only a few points off.

However, since neither is commonly available outside the major cities, they tend to tune for a lower grade fuel than we would.

I'm not sure why the Stillen kit was suffering emissions. It could be the Stage 1 aspect of it (the lack of intercooler), and so it might just be dumping extra fuel in whenever it overheats (all the time) and killing the chance of it passing. Its more than possible that a Stage 2 kit, with its intercooler, will not suffer the same fate.

I was talking to Peter Pilkington about it (he used to prep the white 350Z in Nation's Cup for his son Nathan), as he was at a track day where they were running the car and he had a chat with them about the vehicle. It was out the same day that the owner of the white V35 that now runs the 4.2L engine and APS Extreme TT kit popped his original motor at Wakefield.

[Sydneykid]

apparently USA uses 91 octane which when converted to RON works out to be 98 RON

You got it, but every US tune I have had anything to do with is very unresponsive due to a general lack of ignition advance. When I talk to the tuners they all use the "low octane" excuse for the dowiness.

also, reliability is a big issue in my mind

Then avoiding the combustion pressure hit at low rpm should be a priority, a softer, more progressive boost build would be my objective.

gary, do you believe that a TT setup will work reliably on a stock motor with an auto transmission?

I actually think turbos and autos go together very well. The Stagea is brilliant, just load it up against the torque converter and make 12 psi or so for take off. It never drops off boost because you don't lift off for gearchanges, there is a constant stream of exhaust gases.

the stillen kit is designed to do so and has proven to do so before

I can't see how a supercharger would be any better.

also, the stillen kit is CARB approved, which means it meats californian emissions standards. this to me means it will easily pass aussie testing

CARB rules are a bit unusual, they are in general terms tougher, but the California temperatures, rpms and speeds for measurement of emmissions are unique in the world. I wouldn't feel confident that just becuase a car passes in California that it will pass Euro 3. The fuel differences just add to that.

is supercharging the easiest way to make the most power?

Not everywhere, because it soaks up power driving the supercharger itself, so you actually get less power until the boost reaches a point where the horsepower produced exceeds the amount soaked up. Have a look at the idle A/F ratios, throttle bypass and the amount of ignition advance required to keep a stable idle with the supercharger load added to the power steering aircon and electrical loads.

no, its not. but in my eyes its a reliable way to make more power on a stock engine with an auto trans and to meet aussie standards

I'm not convinced that a supercharger is better than a turbo charger for an auto. As for meeting the standards, that would have to be proven locally.

also, imagine the low-rpm torque!!

Precisely my point, I don't think it's a good thing. Remember the Yanks like to make every engine feel like a big cube V8, lazy, unresponsive torque is the target. They don't want a responsive lively engine, they want a slugger, hence the aftermarket responds to that requirement.

thoughts gary? specifically on the stillen kit?

I have zero experience with the kit, plenty with superchargers though. I have enough confidence in Stillen's previous stuff (I have used a few bits over the years) to believe that the kit will do what it's supposed to do. My personal difficulty is that I simply don't like what it's supposed to do, plus I am not big fan of the endless supercharger whine that Eatons generate. That's just my own preferences and may not reflect other people's desires.

Cheers

Gary

[NISMO]

Gary, Alan

What's your view on a custom turbo kit built here in Aus? I imagine that everything is mostly easily doable, except the turbo manifold(s).

Any view on this?

I know the HKS kit your referring to, and it looks great, but again your paying for HKS parts.

Do you see any major problems for a knowledgeable workshop to develop a custom kit?

My view is that there is easily enough experience in workshops here to develop parts such as intercooler piping, exhausts etc. Things like ECU's Turbo's, injectors, fuel supply can all be done here without much concern. Again its the manifold that I'm worried about.

Does anyone have any experience with a custom manifold and pricing involved?

[scathing]

I know someone with a HKS ST on 350Z-Tech. You could ask him for a photocopy of the Bill Of Materials, if one came with the kit, (or use the BOM for the APS ST) and try and replicate it as best you can using local parts.

I have no idea what turbo APS uses in their ST kit either, but HKS HKS uses an externally gated GT3037.

[Sydneykid]

This is the kit

If I add up the parts, turbos, manifolds, sump, inlet pipes, fittings etc (even using Garret turbos), I don't think I could do it for $6K (the US price). Certainly not significantly cheap enough to make it worth my time engineering it myself.

Cheers

Gary

[WazR32GTSt]

bobby.. what about a VQ25DET manifold (M35 stagea).. would that fit up to the VQ35 motor?

[WazR32GTSt]

gary,

thanks for your thoughts. you make some interesting points re tuning, especially idle tuning with a supercharger

my knowledge of the stillen kit is that the blower is bypassed at vaccum intake pressure or somthing along those lines. not sure how this affects things.

i agree that the supercharger isn't the easiest way to make the most power.

but i think its a cheaper way to make more power, and probably enough power for my liking. i especially like the idea of an easy install with no tuning required to still make +30rwkw or even more

my auto currently has a BIG trans cooler, and i'm not going to touch it any further

all i will add to the car if i get some kind of FI is LSD and maybe an oil cooler

i'll keep doing some research and keeping an eye out for second hand kits. if i find a second hand centrifugal kit i would also consider that...

gary, any thoughts on the under-bonnet temps of a TT kit? and also, how running 2 turbos would alter emissions especially cold start emissions and the lack of heating up ofthe cat when running turbocharged setups?

Edited July 15, 2008 by WazR32GTSt

[WazR32GTSt]

my offer still stands

do you mean this offer?

I'll see if I can tee up a ride for you. speak more on wednesday about it. that *may* change your mind.

if so, then YES PLEASE!!

haha

i'll chat to you about it on the 23rd when i'm around

[andy65b]

bobby.. what about a VQ25DET manifold (M35 stagea).. would that fit up to the VQ35 motor?

Hi Warren,

The VQ25DET has a "very" unique flange on the manifold for the turbo. It has been described to me by people who work with high flowing turbo's as the first time they had seen that flange and turbo housing.

Cheers

Andy

[WazR32GTSt]

yeah but if it bolts up the the exhaust manifold perfectly then you could get an adaptor to put whatever flange you want on the turbo side, T3, T28, etc.

[Sydneykid]

gary,

thanks for your thoughts. you make some interesting points re tuning, especially idle tuning with a supercharger

my knowledge of the stillen kit is that the blower is bypassed at vaccum intake pressure or somthing along those lines. not sure how this affects things.

i agree that the supercharger isn't the easiest way to make the most power.

but i think its a cheaper way to make more power, and probably enough power for my liking. i especially like the idea of an easy install with no tuning required to still make +30rwkw or even more

my auto currently has a BIG trans cooler, and i'm not going to touch it any further

all i will add to the car if i get some kind of FI is LSD and maybe an oil cooler

i'll keep doing some research and keeping an eye out for second hand kits. if i find a second hand centrifugal kit i would also consider that...

gary, any thoughts on the under-bonnet temps of a TT kit? and also, how running 2 turbos would alter emissions especially cold start emissions and the lack of heating up ofthe cat when running turbocharged setups?

The turbos are rear/low mounted and consequently in the exit airstream from the engine bay. Based on the comparison of the low mount RB20 turbo (using the Group A R31 exhaust manifold) versus the standard mount, the low/rear mount turbo ran much cooler and the under bonnet temperatures were remarkably lower. As usual, I will thermo wrap the pipework wherever possible.

For cold start emmisions I will be locating the cats right at the turbo dump pipes, that ensures the fastest heat up time. The V25 single turbo actually has 2 cats, one small one at the turbo dump for fast heat up and one further back for running. Keeping that logic in mind I will keep the cats physically as small as I can, there are 2 of them so they don't have to be as big as a single would. "Small" doesn't mean restrictive, the matrix is smaller so it heats up faster. The downside is more frequent changes of the cats as the matrix wears out faster.

The "no tune" power increase for the turbos is exactly the same as the "no tune" power increase for a supercharger. The Stillen kits simply adds an injector downstream to add fuel when its needed. There is no reason why I couldn't do exactly the same with twin turbos. It's just a simple single (or twin) injector controller, they are cheap, readily available and easily tuned. They are just not able to be tuned accurately enough for larger power increases, plsu they have ignition tuning deficiencies. I have long term plans (forged internals) that will mean more power (~700bhp), so a tuneable, piggy backed ECU is the go.

Cheers

Gary

[WazR32GTSt]

nice gary, a built VQ35 with a TT kit would be ideal on a track, and with a few handling mods.. hmmmmmmmmm..

i have ordered some sways off your son just waiting for them to arrive hopefully they make a nice difference to handling on the V35, i'm sure they will

what other plans do you have for the V35 you will get?

[NISMO]

Waaaaaaazzzzz,

Have you been bitten by the performance bug?

First supercharging, now sways. What other dirtly little secrets do you have :-)))

Sways make a massive difference IMO.

Gary are yours adjustable? I ask cause there's ALOT of different opinions in the US on what settings suit the V35.

The NISMO set i have are fine for me as the car is 99% street driven, but imagine you would want a bit more flexibility for more track work.

[WazR32GTSt]

haha yeah i have a fwe secrets, no point airing on the forum all that is going through my head

i ordered a set of sways through matt (gary's son) and they are non-adjustible but much stiffer than OEM. there was a more expensive set that was adjustible but i won't see track time so i don't care. i oredered them about 3 weeks ago, can't wait to get them on soon!

i've also recently fitted a HUGE tranny cooler to my car which added over 1L of trans fluid to the capacity as well as cooling it significantly. i used OEM nissan matic J fluid - actually i have just under 4L of this left is anyone wants to buy the rest of the container for a cheap price!

[Martin HKS]

Special Turbo System for Z33 will turbocharge VQ35DE.

Features- The kit works on stock engine. If engine internal parts are upgraded with HKS Forged Piston + I-Beam Conrod Set (23004-AN002) - Metal Head Gasket (23001-AN002), target horsepower will be more than 450ps.

- GT3037 Turbine enables strong torque from low rpm range even with stock engine.

- Size of intercooler is minimum with consideration of affect to water temperature.

- For emission problem and vehicle inspection, center pipe integrates HKS Metal Catalyzer. (With Exhaust Gas Test Report)

- Adapter Pipe (Sold separately) is required to use HKS Full Dual Muffler (32009-AN002) together.

Torque

Power

Kit Components- GT3037 Turbine (56T A/R 1.12)

- GT II Wastegate

- Intercooler ASSY

- Exhaust Manifold

- Adapter Flange

- Front Pipe

- Wastegate Inlet Pipe

- Front Pipe with Metal Catalyzer- Bypass Pipe

- Oil Sump

- Baffle Plate

- Chamber Pipe x 4

- Suction Pipe x 2

- Super Power Flow Reloaded

- Other parts

Remarks- Injector and fuel pump need to be upgraded. Injector (1402-RN011), Fuel Pump (G23210-K00010-00) are recommended.

- F-CON V Pro is required for engine management.

- Factory setting of Wastegate is at 0.35kgf/cm2. Boost limitation of stock engine is 0.4kgf/cm2. In order to increase boost level more, upgrading of engine internal parts is required.

[Martin HKS]

ProductTechnologyPerformanceKit

The next generation forced induction system "GT SUPERCHARGER". It is high balance of Power and environmental performance.The next generation quality of acceleration feeling from HKS GT SUPERCHARGER.

New HKS GT SUPERCHARGER has "Quick acceleration response without lag", "Linear torque characteristic at low and middle rpm", "Low mechanical noise and compact design", "Environmental performance" like economical fuel consumption and clean exhaust gas.

* The engine cover is not included in the kit as it is option item. Explanation of GT SUPERCHARGER SYSTEM-Complete Kit includes all parts required for installation and operation (*1). No modification is required for installation. It's "Quiet" and "High Power".

-Complete Kit includes engine management system. HKS or stock exhaust and stock catalytic converter are specified.-Pro Kit does not include Fuel parts and engine management system. It can be used at high horsepower with engine internal upgrading.

* 1 : Spark Plug is not included. Select proper one for vehicle.

HKS' recommendation : HKS SUPER FIRE RACING M40IL (50003-M40IL)

Kit Components

Complete Kit

Pro Kit

- GT Supercharger Unit

- Intercooler

- Injector

- Fuel Pump

- Piggy back ECU

- Supercharger Bracket

- Pulley, Belt- Super Power Flow

- Suction Pipe

- Chamber Pipe

- Relief Valve

- Traction Oil Cooler

- Traction Oil Tank

- Traction Oil - GT Supercharger Unit

- Intercooler

- Supercharger Bracket

- Pulley, Belt- Super Power Flow

- Suction Pipe

- Chamber Pipe

- Relief Valve

- Traction Oil Cooler

- Traction Oil Tank

- Traction OilCombine with parts listed below due to preset data of included sub computer.- The use of parts which are not listed will void warranty.- There is a risk of damaging the engine if parts other than the ones listed are used.

Parts required for Complete Kit

ECUStock ECU with factory dataCatalytic ConverterStockExhaust ManifoldStock or HKS Stock Replacement Type Stainless Exhaust Manifold Center PipeStock or HKS Stainless Center Pipe

MufflerStock or HKS LEGAMAX

(Full Dual Muffler or LEGAMAX Premium are also included for FAIRLADY Z.)

Spark PlugHKS SUPER FIRE RACING M40iL / M45iL or S40iL / S45iL

Engine OilHKS SUPER TURBO RACING

HKS SUPER Premium RACING

HKS SUPER TURBO RACING Pro HKS SUPER TURBO RACING Special

HKS Premium Pro If the Complete Kit is used in ways listed below, it will void the warranty.

Usage which will void warranty

Driving on track under constant high load.Changing or adjusting data on the sub computer.Changing the ECU data. (Increasing maximum rpm or changing ignition settings.)

Edited July 17, 2008 by Martin HKS

[Martin HKS]

For some reason I can't seem to download the pages correctly onto here. It keeps screwing them up. I can't even load the page and pics of the HKS twin turbo setup kit at all (I must be stupid or something).

If you guys are interested in the HKS items shoot me an email and I'll send the files through. My email is [email protected]

Hope I can help.

Cheers

Marty

[WazR32GTSt]

Hi Martin,

so you sel lthe HKS supercharger kit?

can you email me some info? warren_clements at hotmail

do you install it too?

cheers,

Warren

[WazR32GTSt]

email sent..