M35 Stagea Suspension

[Sydneykid]

I had an M35 Stagea ARX on the hoist today to engineer some Selbys Swaybars for it. Which is pretty much how the previous Stagea models suspension thread started, swaybars first. Quite logical since they are the best value handling upgrade you can do. We took a few pictures, of course, which I will post up over the next few days. First some data;

The standard front swaybar is 29 mm hollow, so I replaced it with a 30 mm solid adjustable. I didn't want to go too big in the front bar as the 4wd's are fairly front weight biased and so need to transfer their weight rather than skip wiht too much antiroll. Something to keep in mind is that the front bar is linked to the lower control arm around half way to the wheel, so there are considerable leverage and movement ratios to be considered. As a comparison the previous model Stagea front bar is 1 to 1 with the wheel, hence why a 24 mm front bar is the go on them.

The standard rear bar was 18 mm hollow, which is way undersized, so I replaced it with a 24 mm solid adjustable. It was fairly obvious that the standard rear bar was way too small considering the high rear centre of gravity (it's a waggon). Something to keep in mind is, like the front bar, the rear bar is linked to the upper control arm around half way to the wheel, so once again there are considerable leverage and movement ratios to be considered. To complete the comparison, the previous model Stagea rear bar is also similarly located, hence why a 24 mm rear bar is also the go on them.

Tools used;

10 mm socket for removing the front undertray

14 mm socket for removing the nuts on front swaybar links

14 mm open ended spanner for holding the rear swaybar links while undoing the nuts

12 mm socket for removing the nut/bolts on the front and rear D brackets

That's all I needed, simple installation process.

Driving impressions;

I set the front and rear bars on their softest setting and did a quick lap of test track #1. The improvement was both obvious and impressive, the previous plough understeer and excessive weight transfer tothje outside front wheel was almost gone. I thought it need a little more on the rear, so I went up one hole on the adjustment. That balanced it out a even more and gave a noticeable improvement in the lift off front tuck in to the apex. I'll let the owner drive it around for a while and then take his feedback on the day to day balance. Plus I will check the fittings and make sure there is no distress in the mountings or links. Once that is done the bars will be available for sale, if there is enough interest I will do an SAU Group Buy for those that are interested.

To be continued..............

Cheers

Gary

[andy65b]

A very happy owner...........

a huge improvement on the standard set up. The factory set up did turn in OK but required more steering lock and a bit of patience and confidence it would bit. The new set up is so much more direct and instant in response. The old 747 jumbo feeling is gone as the body has far less roll (you know what I mean Jetwreck).

Despite shocks that are passed their use by date the car feels so much more responsive and does not move around over every bump. Next stop, new Bilstein shocks and srings, maybe a bit lower....

love it...

Andy

Edited February 21, 2008 by andy65b

[mxfly]

THat's bloody unreal, thanks for the info. And I would be very keen to get a set of these babies once they're available.

I've only had my ARX for a few days and have noticed how much it rolls. But then again, it is a taller car and weighs considerably more than what im used to.

I've sussed underneath and initially thought you wouldve needed to remove part of the exhaust to take out the rear sways, like my 350 does. But i guess you worked out how to remove the bar without touching the exhaust then.

[Jetwreck]

I'm in!!! How much??? PM me when ready.

The old 747 jumbo feeling is gone as the body has far less roll (you know what I mean Jetwreck).

747 or bus on crossply's....this fat cow needs to get to F18 status!!!!

[mxfly]

Anymore updates on a possible group buy?

thanks

Eugene

[Sydneykid]

Anymore updates on a possible group buy?

thanks

Eugene

I am not going to list the swaybars until the car has at least a 1,000 k's on them. They are substantial upgrades and I need to carefully check the links and D bushes to ensure all is well. Be patient, you will get a better result from the thorough testing.

Cheers

Gary

[andy65b]

I am not going to list the swaybars until the car has at least a 1,000 k's on them. They are substantial upgrades and I need to carefully check the links and D bushes to ensure all is well. Be patient, you will get a better result from the thorough testing.

Cheers

Gary

All going well so far with about 450km's since fitted. Got to try them one hole firmer this weekend. Should have the 1000k's up within the next week. Sooooo much better with these swaybars. There has been no negative to them at all. Handeling even better in the wet.

Confirmed my order of Bilstein shocks and springs today. Should have them in about a week. Can't wait..........

[mxfly]

Excellent news!

[Jetwreck]

I think I might be needing new shocks as well. Will wait for your Bilstein experiment though.

[cogdog]

i'm interested too. let me know when your ready and i'll be in for sure.

[Sydneykid]

Upgrading the swaybars DIY is pretty easy, some pictures to help, front bar first;

The standard front plastic undertray gets in the way so you need to drop it down to gain access to the D brackets and bushes necessary to remove the bar

You don't have to remove it completely, just remove the rear bolts and drop it down

Access to the D brackets

One nut at the front of each bracket and one bolt at the rear. Notice the laterial locks on the standard bar next to the D Bushes to ensure that it doesn't slide sideways.

Once you have removed the D brackets and dropped the bar down, just undo the links and remove the standard bar. Socket on the nut and a slim open ended spanner to hold the ball joint while you undo the nut.

Lift the Selbys Swaybar up inot position and replace the D Bushes and the D Brackets. Note that the replacement bar is the same diameter as the hollow standard bar except it is solid and it has laterial locks same as the standard bar.

Do up the links. As you can see the adjustable bar is set on the softest setting (rearward holes) for the initial testing. The link is angled backwards but it is a ball joint and handles the acute angle without a problem.

See the next post for the rear bar upgrade.

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

I didn't take any photos of the standard rear bar, the following shows the Selbys Swaybar already in place.

The D brackets and bushes are similar to the front except acces is easy as you can see;

The only trick is you have to undo the 2 brackets from the body that hold the rubbers for the muffler. This enables the exhaust to drop down far enough ro slip the swaybar in between the exhaust pipe and the diff.

You can see the LHS exhaust bracket with the retaining nut already done up. Note that the rear bar also has laterial locks to stop the bar moving sideways.

The best method for doing up the rear links, which is the same process as for the fronts

[Sydneykid]

Thanks to the owner I had the M35 Stagea back on the hoist today and all is well in the swaybar fitting, no problems after 1000k's plus. So they are now released for sale. The Selbys Swaybar recomended retail prices will be $300 for the front adjustable and $275 for the rear adjustable. The Group Buy prices will have the usual 20% discount applied, so they will be $240 for the front adjustable and $220 for the rear adjustable. If you buy both front and rear bars at the same time, that price ($460) includes delivery. Non adjustables are also available at RRP's of $275 for the front and $240 for the rear. The Group Buy prices will also have the usual 20% discount applied, so they will be $220 for the front and $192 for the rear. If you buy both front and rear bars at the same time, that price ($412) also includes delivery.

As usual, delivery is 2 working days from order. Payment is required at the time of placing the order and I can do credit card, just PM me the details, or bank transfer to;

Account Name Jamex Australia

Bank StGeorge Bank

BSB 332-086

Account No 551029694

PM me the transfer receipt number and we are underway.

Please don't forget to send me full name and address for the order plus a contact phone number for the courier in case they need directions or instructions if no one is home.

Any questions, just ask.

Cheers

Gary

[andy65b]

Stage 2 of the suspension upgrade was done over the weekend and has been a huge success.

I have installed a set of Bilstein springs and shock that lower the car around 25-30mm at mximum. The results of the upgrade are fantastic although the actual job is quite complicated and difficult.

The ride with up graded swaybars and the new shocks is quite different to previous ride. The shocks removed had mostly had it so rebound control was bad. The ride now at 30 - 40 kmh is quite firm and you feel most bumps but not bone jarring by any meams. Once a little more speed is up the ride is great, smooth over bumps with lot of boddy control and able to place the car on the road just where you want.

The drop in height drastically changes the look of the wheels in the wheel arch and is noticable when driving the car. Not quite the SUV any more.

I will post up some photo's and details of the suspension fitted tomorrow.

Cheers

Andy

[Sydneykid]

Stage 2 of the suspension upgrade was done over the weekend and has been a huge success.

WE installed a set of Bilstein springs and shock that lower the car around 25-30mm at mximum. The results of the upgrade are fantastic although the actual job is quite complicated and difficult.

The ride with up graded swaybars and the new shocks is quite different to previous ride. The shocks removed had mostly had it, so rebound control was NON EXISTENT. The ride now at 30 - 40 kmh is quite firm and you feel most bumps but not bone jarring by any meams. Once a little more speed is up the ride is great, smooth over bumps with lot of boddy control and able to place the car on the road just where you want.

The drop in height drastically changes the look of the wheels in the wheel arch and is noticable when driving the car. Not quite the SUV any more.

I will post up some photo's and details of the suspension fitted tomorrow.

Cheers

Andy

Edited for accuracy

It's not very much a DIY job, it took us around 5 hours on the hoist, inlcuding a quick wheel alignment. The front standard springs have a lot of preload (they are coil over style) and so the spring compressors get a solid work out. Even the replacement Bilstein front springs have a deal of preload, so the spring compressors are needed there as well. As you can see from the earlier pictures, the rear springs are mounted separately from the shocks (ie; not coil over) and they also have a lot of preload. The best method for fitting and removal, after a couple of tries, was to unbolt the inner pivot of the rear steering arm, which also serves as the spring platform. This disturbs the toe adjustment, so a good look at the rear alignment is necessary.

Having driven the car with the standard shocks I was not surprised to find that they were totaly stuffed. One of the rears had zero gas pressure, the other not much better. Considering the low K's, this is dissappointing, but not surprising when I looked at the size of the shocks. For the weight of the car they are grossly undersized, being twin tube this just exacerbates the problems.

Enough bad news, the good news is (unlike the 34's) the front and rear camber doesn't turn to crap when you lower it. The rear ended up in the range of 0.75 to 0.9 degrees which is pretty much spot on for performance street driving. The front left was a tidy 1.0 degrees negative after a short drive with only the driver in the car, however the right front had 1.5 degrees which is a little high. But that may settle down after a few k's, around 1,000 is the accepted number for a good settling in period. Then I will measure the ride heights and the alignment settings again.

Time was tight, so I didn't have time for a test drive after fitment, but the height, alignment and rates (springs and shocks) looked pretty good technically. So Andy's comments look spot on.

Cheers

Gary

[andy65b]

Edited for accuracy

It's not very much a DIY job, it took us around 5 hours on the hoist, inlcuding a quick wheel alignment. The front standard springs have a lot of preload (they are coil over style) and so the spring compressors get a solid work out. Even the replacement Bilstein front springs have a deal of preload, so the spring compressors are needed there as well. As you can see from the earlier pictures, the rear springs are mounted separately from the shocks (ie; not coil over) and they also have a lot of preload. The best method for fitting and removal, after a couple of tries, was to unbolt the inner pivot of the rear steering arm, which also serves as the spring platform. This disturbs the toe adjustment, so a good look at the rear alignment is necessary.

Having driven the car with the standard shocks I was not surprised to find that they were totaly stuffed. One of the rears had zero gas pressure, the other not much better. Considering the low K's, this is dissappointing, but not surprising when I looked at the size of the shocks. For the weight of the car they are grossly undersized, being twin tube this just exacerbates the problems.

Enough bad news, the good news is (unlike the 34's) the front and rear camber doesn't turn to crap when you lower it. The rear ended up in the range of 0.75 to 0.9 degrees which is pretty much spot on for performance street driving. The front left was a tidy 1.0 degrees negative after a short drive with only the driver in the car, however the right front had 1.5 degrees which is a little high. But that may settle down after a few k's, around 1,000 is the accepted number for a good settling in period. Then I will measure the ride heights and the alignment settings again.

Time was tight, so I didn't have time for a test drive after fitment, but the height, alignment and rates (springs and shocks) looked pretty good technically. So Andy's comments look spot on.

Cheers

Gary

Many thanks for the help Gary. I really do appreciate the help and advise you have given in getting this car to be driving so nicely.

Cheers

Andy

[mxfly]

Just a question about the sway bars. Does the sway bar links needs to be upgraded in the future as the new bars would apply more load to the bushes. I had the same issues with my other car. After putting aftermarket bars on, the stock bushes in the sway bar links wore down after a few months.

[andy65b]

Here are some pics of before new suspension. first 2 shots

And after new suspension. Sorry the shots are shit and I will take some better ones tomorrow.

Edited March 31, 2008 by andy65b

[mxfly]

Nice, thanks for the pics.

[Sydneykid]

Just a question about the sway bars. Does the sway bar links needs to be upgraded in the future as the new bars would apply more load to the bushes. I had the same issues with my other car. After putting aftermarket bars on, the stock bushes in the sway bar links wore down after a few months.

As you can see from the pictures, the standard links are fairly substantial and they showed zero signs of distress at the check over after 1,000ks'.

Cheers

Gary