Bnr32 Gtr Alignment Discussion - Street Track Whatever

[Beer Baron]

Hi guys, keen to get some input on alignment for 32 GTR. info below. happy to entertain all suggestions.

I am about to get another alignment tomorrow.

going for:

front camber: 2.5 deg neg

front caster: max positive (probably around 6-8 degrees pos)

front toe: 0.5mm out each side (i like it a bit 'pointy') or maybe no toe out undecided yet

rear camber: 1 deg neg

rear toe: zero or possibly 1mm each side toe in also undecided yet

front sway bar: medium (mine is the 3 hole type)

rear sway bar: hard (also 3 hole type)

i'm running 32 GTR with 17X9 inch 33 GTR wheels. running Advan A048s.

alingment/suspension parts are:

front adjustable upper arms

front caster rods

tomei lock kit

whiteline adjustable bars front and rear

bilstein coil-overs with eibach springs

strut braces front and rear

cusco roll cage

car use is 80% street 20% track. Tyre wear is not a major concern but no sense in needlessly wearing them our for no good reason. Not worried really about the ride qual on street though.

I just spent 10 mins trying to find a good thread with R32 GTR set-up settings but went no where.

[GTRgeoff]

:grabs popcorn and waits for SK:

Might be a bit confusing for some Rich since you haven't denoted positives and negatives.

Always worth saving where you can....more money for beer.

Since the 32 GTRs are a bit taily in the ATTESSA department would not softest rear bar setting be more suitable?

[N1GTR]

I think its important to seperate street and track settings in this thread?

I want mine setup for tracks and more importantly hillclimbs rather than tyre life and ride confort on crappy Sydney roads

And as im not very smart with these things compared to some of you guys, can easily be confused

[Beer Baron]

:grabs popcorn and waits for SK:

Might be a bit confusing for some Rich since you haven't denoted positives and negatives.

Always worth saving where you can....more money for beer.

Since the 32 GTRs are a bit taily in the ATTESSA department would not softest rear bar setting be more suitable?

yeah good point. I've ammended my above post with the neg/pos as needed.

power on oversteer can be a little bit of a problem, but mainly i find mid corner push is more of a problem, so I'm going to try the hard rear/soft front to help combat this. the extra camber should help too. Better tyres (on now) will help with the front end grip no doubt.

I know the next question is going to be ride height but I dont have it handy atm. will post it up tonight.

[Risking]

I use the same A048's on my R32 GTR.

I generally run around 6-7 degrees castor

1mm total toe out

-2.5 degrees camber on the front

1mm total toe in

-1.5 degrees camber on the rear.

Sway bars I have found to be a personal preferance, coming from a long line of FR racing I tend to like my tail a little slippery which is something ill slowly weene myself out of.

I don't really beleive in "ideal" swaybar settings. Id rather get out on the circuit and find what works best for my given vehicle and my particular driving style.

To a degree I do the same with my allignments. Start with a base but if its not working with you on the day make changes till your comfortable.

With the A048's don't expect to much in the way of tire life out of them. They are a brilliant tire and I use them time after time however life on a road car is very short.

I had a set on my J31 maxima that lasted 4000Km's on the front.

The GTR ones went 3000Km's all round including a wakefield day and an eastern creek day.

[T04GTR]

cool.

first of. softer is always faster.

the worst thing i did for my car was buy whiteline swaybars.(not the kit, so there to stiff as ive got "jap" spring rates.

getting a gtr to turn in is the hardest thing to achieve, especaly with the wide range of suspention kits out there.

heres the settings that i found work very well on the track for a gtr with semis.

first offf. 048's run best at a hot pressure of 30-32psi

and a front rake of around 10mm (front lower)

front toe. up to 5mm out total. (i know of a competative 32 wich runs 7mm out each side!!, but it works

front camber. 4 deg neg. depending on tyre temps but camber is usaly the last thing to settle on.

front caster max. 8-9degrees

swaybar on softest.

rear...

toe 0-.5mm toe in

camber. 1-1.5 degrees depending on the track.(wakefield 1 deg neg, eastern creek 1.5 deg.ie faster track)

swaybar on softest.

(if you have heavy springs say like over 7kg/mm use the stock swaybars,i threw mine out : )

if its understeering stiffen up the rear bar. if its over steering stiffen the front bar.

but worth mentioning is adjusting the roll centres is very worthwile,along with bumpsteer.

basicly lowrer/space the outer balljoint of the front lower control arm 75% as much as you have lowerd it. ie.. a 1 inch spacer usaly does the trick from what ive seen. the same for the steering tie rod end. to keep the steering arm on the same plane as the control arm.

it all really depends on what your spring rates are. this setup is a good starting point for most jap suspention equiped 32gtrs

but its imperative you maintain 30-32 psi max in the tyres 30 is ideal.

that is going out with a cold temp presure of around 24 in the front and 26 in the rear.

cheeres. dave

[T04GTR]

i recently took mine to the track with 5mm toe in on the rear 2 deg neg on the rear and 4mm toe out on the front. 3 deg neg and 9 deg caster, turned in beutifly, evan with 7 yr old ad05/06 advans

it was taily as f**k. so much i removed the rear bar completly and i dropped 3 sec a lap.

the above setting were me gently discussing the subject at a recent improved production round at oran parkl to a gtr driver.

[Beer Baron]

Thanks Dave, that's very helpfull. Yes we run the A048s at around 32 hot which seems to work quite well.

I just went outside and measured the ride height. was a bit hard to do with the wheels I have, and by myself in the dark, but they are around 335mm centre of wheel to guard front and rear.

[Sydneykid]

The very first set up adjustment I do is ride height, then corner weight. I never run lower than 355 mm centre of wheel to guard on the front, we need that height to give sufficient clearance and maintain reasonable drive shaft angles. So I haven’t needed to resort to bump steer adjustments, upper and low control arm geometry changes etc. The rear ride height is something that I play around with a fair bit, I start off at 345 mm centre of wheel to guard. It’s amazing how much difference even just 10 mm in ride height can change the balance.

I would like more, but I can‘t seem to get the front drive shafts to live at more 6-7 degrees of caster. Plus it limits the range of adjustment on the front stabiliser bar.

Spring shock and bar rates are all interrelated. I determine the range of anti roll adjustment I want first, front and rear. Because I prefer to balance the handling using the stabiliser bars, as it is far easier/quicker than doing endless spring swaps. Selecting the spring rates first is the wrong way around and causes drastic stuff like removing the rear bar.

On an R32/33/34GTR I have found a 24 mm adjustable front bar is about as big as I can use. On the rear I use a 24 mm adjustable in the dry, in the wet I sometimes need to swap to the 22 mm rear bar. As, even on the softest setting, the 24 mm is still a little big when you have standing water on the track.

Springs rates are a source of endless discussion, my philosophy is quite simple. I run as soft a spring rate as I can. This enable the car to jump the ripple strips without being thrown off line, it can also ride the bumps that our circuits are covered in. The front ranges from 275 lbs per inch (5 kg/mm) to 400 lbs per inch (7 kg/mm). The rear from 200 lbs per inch (3.5 kg/mm) to 275 lbs per inch (5 kg /mm). The front and rear springs are all the same ID and free height and I have 9 pairs in 25 lbs per inch increments. The most common spring rates used are 350 lbs per inch (6.3 kg/mm) front and 225 lbs per inch (4 kg/mm) rear.

We use Proflex double adjustable shocks with remote canisters. Other than stabiliser bars, I spend most of my time adjusting the shocks. There are so many choices and combinations and we don’t log suspension movement, so there is a lot of driver feel in achieving the result. I wouldn’t suggest using adjustable shocks unless you have the experience, expertise and feel for what is right and what is wrong. You can go round in circles for days and totally confuse yourself. That’s with crew of 4 and a very experienced driver.

Front toe wise I have run 3mm toe out on each side, but 2 mm is more common.

I have found that rear toe is very sensitive, some drivers don’t like the nervous feeling under brakes that you get from more than 1-2 mm of toe out on the rear. Other drivers don’t mind 4 mm each side. So comfort under brakes is always the limiting factor. I have never had to run more than 2 mm toe out, and even that was before we had the rang of bar adjustment that we now have.

Front camber varies from circuit to circuit, the minimum is around 2.5 degrees negative and I haven’t had to run more than 4 degrees. That is usually reserved for high speed circuits with long corners. The common setting is around 3.25 degrees. As usual the pyrometer readings tell you when you have it right.

Similarly, rear camber varies from circuit to circuit, the minimum is around 0.75 degrees negative and I haven’t had to run more than 2 degrees. Once again that is usually reserved for high speed circuits with long corners. The common setting is around 1.50 degrees. As per the front, the pyrometer readings tell you when you have it right.

That’s about it from me.

cheers

PS; I hate A048R’s, but they are the control tyre so I have no choice.

[Beer Baron]

well i'm back.

I'm now running:

Front:

camber = 2.5 neg Left and right (a little more on the right actually, couldn't get as mucy out of the left)

caster = ~8 degrees + each side

toe = total 2mm toe out

sway bar = medium

rear

camber 2 degrees (couldnt get any less with stock adjustment)

toe = zero

swaybar = hard

will be interesting to see how I like it. I'm going to have to do something about the camber. They couldn't get any more out of the adjustable rods.

Thanks for your input Gary.

[Sydneykid]

The standard R32 style upper control arm is 190 mm long, centre of the outer bolt to the centre of the inner bolt. Using the off the shelf adjustable, offset, outer bush (Whiteline etc) reduces that to 184 mm. This gives around 2 to 2.5 degrees of negative camber on an R32 with a ride height around 355 mm centre of wheel to guard with around 6.5 degrees of caster on a 2wd and 5.0 degrees on a 4wd.

That is usually enough camber/caster, provided sufficient anti roll is used (larger stabiliser bars), for most circuits. High speed circuits with long sweeping radius curves (eg; Philip Island) need slightly more camber.

So we use the off the shelf adjustable, offset bush (Whiteline etc) in the inner of the upper control arm. That reduces the length to around 180 mm. This gives around 3.0 to 3.5 degrees of negative camber on an R32 with a ride height around 355 mm centre of wheel to guard with around 6.5 degrees of caster on a 2wd and 5.0 degrees on a 4wd.

This 180 mm upper control arm length length seems to have been the minimum that ALL of the R32 camber adjusters have been made to. All of the brands of upper control arms that I have measured (Noltec, Nismo, Ikeya etc) all stop at 180 mm or longer. So choosing one brand over another to get more negative camber is pretty much a waste of time. As is choosing adjustable arms over bushes in the standard arms.

cheers

PS; if the car is a little lower, you get more static camber, but then if you wind on some more caster you loose that extra camber.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Sydneykid

[BBGTR]

The standard R32 style upper control arm is 190 mm long, centre of the outer bolt to the centre of the inner bolt. Using the off the shelf adjustable, offset, outer bush (Whiteline etc) reduces that to 184 mm. This gives around 2 to 2.5 degrees of negative camber on an R32 with a ride height around 355 mm centre of wheel to guard with around 6.5 degrees of caster on a 2wd and 5.0 degrees on a 4wd.

That is usually enough camber/caster, provided sufficient anti roll is used (larger stabiliser bars), for most circuits. High speed circuits with long sweeping radius curves (eg; Philip Island) need slightly more camber.

So we use the off the shelf adjustable, offset bush (Whiteline etc) in the inner of the upper control arm. That reduces the length to around 180 mm. This gives around 3.0 to 3.5 degrees of negative camber on an R32 with a ride height around 355 mm centre of wheel to guard with around 6.5 degrees of caster on a 2wd and 5.0 degrees on a 4wd.

This 180 mm upper control arm length length seems to have been the minimum that ALL of the R32 camber adjusters have been made to. All of the brands of upper control arms that I have measured (Noltec, Nismo, Ikeya etc) all stop at 180 mm or longer. So choosing one brand over another to get more negative camber is pretty much a waste of time. As is choosing adjustable arms over bushes in the standard arms.

cheers

PS; if the car is a little lower, you get more static camber, but then if you wind on some more caster you loose that extra camber.

SK,

With ref. to your response above, I am getting some NOLTEC adjustable arms fitted at the moment. What is your opinion specifically on these and compared to the CUSCO versions, be it good bad or indifferent.

Regards

Andrew

[NFAA32]

has anyone had any problms with power steering pump?

i used to own a gtst and when i fitted adj. castor rods and wound them out(was a few yrs back but i think they were sset to about 8°) the power steering assembly would make horrible noise anythin near lock, and then steering would get heavy if you had to turn a few tight corners(20min city drive etc), so i got them to lessen it and it went away..

with my gtr, (havent had an alignment yet, comes tomorrow), it makes a similar noise, and has adjustable castor rods.. to which ill ask them to reduce the castor by a degree or so.

[Beer Baron]

no problem here. Lots of castor and no undue PS noises. I'd say it was a faulty/failing PS pump to begin with.

[Sydneykid]

SK,

With ref. to your response above, I am getting some NOLTEC adjustable arms fitted at the moment. What is your opinion specifically on these and compared to the CUSCO versions, be it good bad or indifferent.

Regards

Andrew

Hi Andrew, the Noltec adjustable R32 front upper control arm is excessively heavy, they slip as the bolts loosen up frequently and they provide no more adjustment than 2 x Whiteline camber kits. ie; they have a minimum closed length around 180 mm.

cheers

[BBGTR]

Hi Andrew, the Noltec adjustable R32 front upper control arm is excessively heavy, they slip as the bolts loosen up frequently and they provide no more adjustment than 2 x Whiteline camber kits. ie; they have a minimum closed length around 180 mm.

cheers

Thanks for that , I'm running the car a Philip Island on the weekend, I'll be interested to see how they hold up.

Regards

Andrew

[T04GTR]

garry...

just out of curiosity. are you alowd to change to sperical bearings in your class of racing? instead of the factory bush?

[T04GTR]

also bwhat if we dont have 2k a corner proflex? in terms of spring rate.

cos on the v8 tean i worked for they run 4way spax and a very light spring. (well in my opinion) 400lb front 300lb rear give or take depending on the track.

so from what i can see. the better the damper you have, the lighter spring you can get away with ..yes?

[PSI_GTSII]

This is the report back from my GTR last week.

http://users.tpg.com.au/realj/Wheel%20Alignment.jpg

I'm having a little trouble deciphering it

What is my actual

Camber

Toe

Castor

?

Edited August 30, 2006 by PSI_GTSII

[BBGTR]

This is the report back from my GTR last week.

http://users.tpg.com.au/realj/Wheel%20Alignment.jpg

I'm having a little trouble deciphering it

What is my actual

Camber

Toe

Castor

?

Front Camber = 1 deg on left wheel, 2.1 deg on right

Rear Camber = 1.5 deg on left wheel, 2.2 deg on right

Toe is in deg which is hard to map to mm - looks like small toe out on front and even smaller on rear.

Caster is 4 deg on front left and 2.4 deg on front right.

I dunno about anyone else, but it looks all over the shop.