I am sure I am not alone in getting fed up and frustrated by all the cr#p we are fed about "hoons". I found this article when looking for something just now and the following quote made me yell "OFFS!":




The full article is at: WAToday.com.au

Since when has "road rage" been part of "hooning"???? I presume that next week we can expect armed robbery and ram raids to be part of hooning. Carrying guns and robbing banks won't be the problem, but the full weight of the law will be brought to book on the hoons for spinning their wheels when driving their truck through the front of the bank!

I believe that the "hoon" laws are badly drafted and give the police far too much power. They are bad law! There are sufficient laws without them. The rules of evidence are also being seriously diluted by pursuing convictions on the word of members of the public. Little old ladies phoning up to say "he was going very fast" should not constitute sufficient evidence. Hopefully it does not, but we shall see.

I would like to compile evidence of the hoon laws in practice. So if you know of poor application of the law, inappropriate actions by police using the hoon laws, the use of questionnable evidence, or similar, please let me know via this thread and/or pm. Please only first hand experience - not "I know a bloke, who's mate's girfriend's brother".

If we compile sufficient evidence, I intend to put a submission to Colin Barnett to change the law. Let the punishment fit the crime!

Cheers.

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"Extract from the Second Reading Speech for the Bill that introduced the road rage provisions into the Road Traffic Act 1974 (WA):

"The bill removes the current requirement for police, when considering whether to impound the vehicle of a hoon driver for 48 hours, to have personal knowledge that there are grounds to impound the vehicle prior to doing so. For example, in a situation in which a police officer arrives at a scene after the impounding offence has occurred, the police officer will be able to impound a vehicle on the basis of observations from other witnesses, admissions made by the hoon and other forms of evidence. … This does not mean, however, that a police officer will be able to impound a vehicle on the basis of a malicious allegation made by another person. A police officer’s reasonable suspicion must be based on evidence that will stand up to scrutiny in a court. A vehicle will be impounded only on the basis of a civilian witness report if it is corroborated by other forms of evidence gathered by the investigating police officer.""

and this is where the video tape comes in. At least it's evidence and not some knucklehead making an unsustainable allegation at the scene.

I've come round a long bend going 5 kms under the speed limit (55 in a 60) and there were cops there. Waved me down and tried to tell me I was going too fast. "I heard you coming round that bend mate, slow down!". Then breath tested yada yada.

I've had a guy on his lawn put up his hand at me going past in a "slow down ya dickhead" kind of way aswell, when I was doing spot on 50 in a residential area.

I hope people like this who think a loud exhaust = speeding arent ringing up that hoon hotline. Because its bullshit.

Merging pisses me off no end. Monday for example, I was heading up to the workshop and was getting onto the Freeway from the Farmer, was mucho dickheads no merging so I pull across and rode the dotted line in an attempt to force everyone to merge, to which most obliged except one cock in a new BMW who decided to blow past me (half in the emergency lane)



LOL I've been threatened with a brick through my windscreen for "speeding" when I most definately wasn't, not my fault that my loud car makes people think I'm speeding

Guys,

Brendan has asked for situations that can be useful to us to be posted up,
please place well written and substantiated information here so that something can be actioned, you never know what this may start, we may even have a win.

+1.

Thanks, Mike. Thanks for your comment too, Dan.

Guys, I am looking for useable material to compile a case against the hoon laws. So please don't chat - but I know where you are coming from ... ... ..

Useable first hand experience, please. By pm, if preferred.

Cheers.

During my Hoon Law incident earlier this year, Police at the time claimed I performed this skid mark as I entered the street.
They claimed that 'they saw the mark as they drove past' as their way of proving I performed the mark.
Upon looking at the mark, it was a 17m long single pegger. I told the POLICE OFFICERS at the time that there was no way in hell my car did that, but they seemed chuffed that they had me on this.

A month or so later I get my Statement of Facts from the Police regarding the incident, and they convienently left out the skid mark claim (probably due to the 10+ page topic they saw on here) however over hyped how I 'skewered across the carriageway' to paint a different picture of what had actually happened. My rear end probabyl came out 30cm if that while I was already in my lane, so much for this 'skewered across the carriageway'.

Police over hype everything, not just hoon stuff. They do this to guarntee or help with a conviction.
Like that 'Operation Snakepit' on Ch7 the other night... 'they've gathered months of intelligence to find out hoon hot spots'. More like a night's worth, because they didn't pick up anyone under the Hoon Laws. With the current number of Hoon offences per year, it equates to around 3-5 incidents per day. They dribble shit and dumb journalists print it not knowing any wiser.

As for road rage relating to hooning, well I think the main reason why they want it to become a Hoon Law offence is because the current law doesn't enable Police to seize the car for good unless one of the 3 offences relates to road rage behaviour. See the artcle about the first guy in WA to accumulate 3 strikes, and how Police failed to keep his car due to none of his offences related to road rage.

I got an article next to me about how 'Hoons fail to learn' printed in the paper I work for (Oct 7th).

Well I'd like Wally to tell the Police in unmarked police cars that are trying to entice other people to race them that they are just as stupid. What happenes if as a result of their actions they or the other people cause an accident? Will the Police be charged for manslaughter, just like the guy that was charged with it as a result of the death of that 16y/o girl in the other car he was racing against?

I think my post has turned into another rant, but imo one person writing something won't do anything. There are probably more Hoon Law worshippers than haters out there, just take a look at the pathetic comments by people on Perth Now when a Hoon incident happens.

End of the day you've got to look after yourself. If you think you're going to get busted for Hoon Laws make sure you don't say anything which may incriminate you, take down Police details, photos and videos that will support your evidence. Visit a lawyer to get expert opinions on what should be done. Even if you are guilty, lawyer wil help you word out something so it doesn't look as bad as it does because as I had mentioned earlier, Police will over hype their evidence.

If you want Hoon Laws gone, someone on here become Premier and pass it through ok!!!

I can't see the police charging a 'road rage' offender [ a criminal offence] with the lesser charge of 'hooning' [a traffic offence]; why would they go easy?. there's a slight difference between lighting the tyres up and bashing a person on the side of the road!!!. I think the old 'chief copper' was on drugs when he made that quoted comment.

I dont think they were talking about charging with a lesser offence, they were referring to being able to impound or confiscate the vehicle due to road rage under the hoon laws.

Thread cleaned. As this is a sensitive subject this thread will be heavily moderated to keep replies legitimate.
Please only post with actual information that can be useful to Brendan and our community.
No posts on thoughts, no posts on ideas, no posts other than an event that took place.

Date

Time

Location

Event

Cheers
Mike

My experience is that the application of hoonlaws is rather arbitrary and is completely up to the discretion of the officer (which can work in either favour).

I was pulled over for something that should have seen me hoonlawed and all I got was a yellow sticker.

Obviously, I am not going to elaborate any further.

I agree with Bubba. I should have lost my car (hoon lawed), license (goes with hoon laws) and life (Strict parents) but got away with a warning.

The problem is that alot of the laws are discretionary. I've read alot of the road traffic act whilst my brother has been studying for his police exams and alot of it is very subjective. Unfortunately i just dont think theres alot we can do about it. Lets all move to Malaysia where speeding is acceptable and you dont get defected unless your cars missing an engine.

I got pulled up for doing a bunny hop after i got my new clutch, they did me for hoon. I get out of my vehical and the sgt comes up to me and stands very intimidatingly close to me and badgers me on why i did a " burn out " i replied i " bunny hopped " by total accident, im not used to my new clutch. He reply's What do you mean by new clutch, I replyed back I got a new clutch and i half slipped off of the pressure point which caused it to lurch forward. He stood back and look ed at my car and said, " right your clutch slipped, thats a yellow stickerable offence ", i said No the clutch didnt slip, its brand new, and He snapped back dont question my knowlage, i asked if he was a mechanic and he told me to shut up. Then he walked around my car, and put a sticker on it for a " slipping " clutch. So i protested, pulling the receipt out and explaining that it was n accident and there is no need to sticker a new clutch, its legal this isnt fair, He told me to put the receipt away or he would tear it up. Then he continued on asking me did my parents no where i was, i said they no im out but dont no exactly where i am, and he replied back " because they dont love you " and continued on saying its shit heads like you that ruin perth. i said excuse me you dont even no me, and your telling me my parents dont love me, how dare you speak to me like that, He came back up to me right up n close and told me if i didn't shut up, he'd take my car away for 7days and if i didnt stop asking him question's he would arrest me. I said you cant tell me that! Your being so unfair, this isnt fair how can you know if my clutch is slipping if you didnt even attenmtp to look at it. then he radioed in and more coppers arrived. I did the wrong thing and lost it, i continued on saying my friends house gets broken into when there there and they kick the crap outa the missus and smother the baby and knock him unconscious and you don't even turn up, and then we call because of africans street drinking on teh corner and throwing glass bottles and you still dont turn up, but you want to arrest a 17yr old chick for asking questions, your disgusting! Then he said he would tasor me if i said another word, after swear his head off at me telling me to shut up. im like you cant tasor me im not a threat, so he said right thats it, im arresting you. I got arrested, and my car got hooned for 48hrs... I cant belive the way i was treated, do i as a civilian have absolutely no rights what so ever, I believe he used his weight and height to intimidate me, he threatened me for no reason, and totally abused me, and i had no say what so every. This is disgusting, Im fighting it in court as we speak! Ive completely lost faith in WA police now! especially after that!

i agree with unfair treatment of us just for the group we get categorised in, they think that just because we drive the cars we do we are considered to be criminals in a few ways etc.

don't want to start ranting about my experiences nor do i want to go off topic so i'll just stop here, good luck Kelly...

and Brendan, any feedback lately as to how this is progressing?

thanks,

Andrew

i should have lost my license and lost my car. the cop yelled and threatened to unleash his dog on me but at the end he ended up letting me go with a warning. seems like he just wanted to scare me so i wouldn't speed again.

but threatening a young female and then arresting her when there was no physical contact is just outrageous. should have let him rip the recipe up so you can claim he damaged personal property aswell.

I had the same thing happen, cept I was only accused of doing a burnout, which I definitely did not as the time I was suppose to have done it I was in bed...

Anyway, I went through a speed trap in a 40 zone doing 30 whist going home from tafe. the sgt jumps out and starts screaming for me to pull over. I think to myself "Oh shit, my speedo must be out" he runs up to my yelling for me to reverse up to the cop car, spitting as he yelled. He demanded I stood away from the car as they searched it.

sgt yelling "7.30 this moring, burnout, do you remember doing that?"
Me "ah... no..."
sgt "well all these people saw you do it and they've complained because you left a hole in the road, do you remeber now??!?!?"
Me "ah... no..."

He checked my licence, I'd only had it 3 weeks.

sgt "That was a f*cking stupid thing to do, you've only had your licence for 3 weeks and now everytime a police officer sees you they are going to pull you over and search your car"

He did the whole looking over the car, telling me what was wrong with it... telling me what a f**king dick head I was, blah blah blah...

Anyways, End of the day, no harm done, no ticket, no sticker, no worries...

I never admitted fault, I never lost my cool, I still showed hime respect and just took his yelling and abuse in my stride.

At the end of the day, they just love yelling at p platers,

I recon Kelly you should have (faking) burst into tears when he acused you and say how your parents will never let you drive again if you got caught doing the wrong thing... he would have got emmbarrased and let you off, lol

There is an article in Zoom magazine about what cops want to hear when they pull you over, and what not to say to the police, and I agree, being polite and respectful, even to a dickhead, goes a long way.

i got done for hoon laws last w/e when i did a small drift out of a shopping center. fair enough i got impounded for 7 days. got the summons or wateva and it states that i was goin side to side down the street leaving a 30m skid mark. when i only left probly 10m skid mark and just slid in the 1 direction.

so this officer has just exagurated the event just to make sure off a conviction .

it's bulls**t

Thanks, Guys. I am pleased to have all of your inputs.

Kelly - sorry to hear your experience. As Andrew says, a lawyer should be able to help with cr#p like that. I reckon this is a good example of a policeman being overbearing and rude and using the hoon laws to threaten you for no good reason. Please let me know the outcome of your case, if you will. PM is probably best. I know how difficult it is to keep your cool when someone is being so unfair and abusing their position. The point of my thread is that the hoon laws leave a lot to an officer's discretion. If the officer is abusing his position, the hoon laws give him more licence to do it!

Jack VL 3L - take some photos of the skid marks, with something to measure against in the photo. Then take these to your lawyer. Again, please let me know how you go.

If anyone else has experiences they are prepared to share, please add them on. Good experiences as well as bad. If you were done fair and square, then please say so. If the policeman was reasonable in his/her behaviour, please say so. If they were aggressive and overbearing, let us know. If you were aggressive and disrespectful, let us know. Best to have basic facts here and more detail in a pm.

Thanks everyone. Please note that I am not knocking the Police, they do a hard job that not many people would do. But a badly framed law allows them to overstep their real powers and some of them will use it - because they are not all saints!

Cheers.